Here in Chicago, it had already been #1 for the past three weeks. Tommy James was always big here in Chicago, topping the charts a total of SEVEN TIMES between 1966 and 1971. (In addition, he had another dozen hits that made our local Top 20.)
I had the opportunity to talk with Tommy this past weekend so naturally the conversation focused on this very special anniversary ... and also my all-time favorite Tommy James song.
Kent Kotal / Forgotten Hits: I know that in your book you talked quite a bit about how much music had changed by 1968 / 1969 and that you knew that you had to adapt in order to keep your career going … but in view of all that, where does something like “Crimson And Clover” even come from? I mean, that was a whole new territory for you.
TOMMY JAMES: Well, “Crimson And Clover” really ended up being, next to “Hanky Panky,” my first record, probably the most important hit record of my career … and for several reasons.
#1 – It was the moment when I began producing myself. It was a very important moment strategically for me. And also, because it was such a dramatic style change for us. We had gone out on the road with Hubert Humphrey, running for President in ’68, and that’s when we started writing the song actually … and when I left in August of ’68 with Hubert Humphrey, all of the hit records on the radio were all basically singles, Top 40 hits … the biggest groups were The Rascals, The Association, Gary Puckett and the Union Gap, The Buckinghams, Mitch Ryder … I mean, I could go on and on and still be leaving a bunch of people out … but when I got back, 90 days later, everything had changed. It was all about albums when I came back … Crosby, Stills and Nash, Blood, Sweat and Tears, Joe Cocker, Led Zeppelin … the whole record industry had turned upside down … and we knew at that point that if we didn’t start selling albums, our career was probably going to be over. And our record label, Roulette, of course, was known for selling singles, not albums.
And so when we got back, it was just a very good thing that we had been working on “Crimson And Clover,” because “Crimson And Clover” allowed us to make that jump from AM Top 40 Singles to FM progressive album rock and start selling albums.
And so when we got back, it was just a very good thing that we had been working on “Crimson And Clover,” because “Crimson And Clover” allowed us to make that jump from AM Top 40 Singles to FM progressive album rock and start selling albums.
And so that was a very, very important record for us … and it really changed everything in our careers and allowed us to have what I guess you could say was the second half of our career … and allowed us to do things that we could have never done before “Crimson And Clover.”
So we were sort of straddling the fence … we had fans in both the progressive album rock and also on singles and so we were very lucky to have that record at that particular moment in time.
kk: And it still plays very well as a single. In fact, I’m taping a radio show with Phil Nee this weekend, a deejay up in Wisconsin who has interviewed you before … I think you’ve probably been on his program a few times in fact … and we’ve just each picked our twenty favorite songs from 1969 and my #1 pick just happens to be “Crimson And Clover.” I think it’s just an incredibly strong single … and it’s funny because I just did a piece in Forgotten Hits a couple of weeks ago talking about how I’ve never cared for the long version … it just always seemed to me to be forced … I mean, I get the concept of why you had to do it in order to keep up with the times, but to me I never understood the need … because it just plays so well as a single. I mean it really is the perfect single.
TJ: Thank you very much for that. You know, it was amazing because we really had to make a long version from the short version rather than having the long version completed and then editing it down for the single … we kinda went the opposite direction.
kk: Yeah, it’s really the complete opposite of the norm.
TJ: There are SO many stories like that hooked to “Crimson And Clover” … it ended up being the biggest selling single we had … we sold five and a half million singles just in 1969 alone ... and then the album did another three million units ... and then, later on, “Crimson And Clover” was in the Greatest Hits Album which did, to this day, roughly twelve million pieces. So it has been really a LONG road for “Crimson And Clover” and, strangely enough, this week is the 50th Anniversary of “Crimson And Clover” going to #1.
kk: And it still plays very well as a single. In fact, I’m taping a radio show with Phil Nee this weekend, a deejay up in Wisconsin who has interviewed you before … I think you’ve probably been on his program a few times in fact … and we’ve just each picked our twenty favorite songs from 1969 and my #1 pick just happens to be “Crimson And Clover.” I think it’s just an incredibly strong single … and it’s funny because I just did a piece in Forgotten Hits a couple of weeks ago talking about how I’ve never cared for the long version … it just always seemed to me to be forced … I mean, I get the concept of why you had to do it in order to keep up with the times, but to me I never understood the need … because it just plays so well as a single. I mean it really is the perfect single.
TJ: Thank you very much for that. You know, it was amazing because we really had to make a long version from the short version rather than having the long version completed and then editing it down for the single … we kinda went the opposite direction.
kk: Yeah, it’s really the complete opposite of the norm.
TJ: There are SO many stories like that hooked to “Crimson And Clover” … it ended up being the biggest selling single we had … we sold five and a half million singles just in 1969 alone ... and then the album did another three million units ... and then, later on, “Crimson And Clover” was in the Greatest Hits Album which did, to this day, roughly twelve million pieces. So it has been really a LONG road for “Crimson And Clover” and, strangely enough, this week is the 50th Anniversary of “Crimson And Clover” going to #1.
[EDITOR’S NOTE: As you can see by yesterday’s WLS Chart, “Crimson And Clover” had already been the #1 Record here in Chicago for the past three weeks. Tommy James and the Shondells always did VERY well here in Chicago, where they had SEVEN #1 Hits. In 1969, they would top our local charts TWICE … first with “Crimson And Clover” and then again with “Crystal Blue Persuasion.”]
TJ: So we are literally in the week that it peaked in 1969. And, on our Sirius radio show next week, we’re actually doing a little tribute to “Crimson And Clover” in honor of the anniversary of it. And I must say, it continues to be in movies … it’s going to be in three different movies this year! I’m just amazed at the lifespan of that record. It’s been amazing. We really appreciate it.
kk: Well, it’s a great song … and a favorite of mine now for over fifty years. Another big hit in 1969, of course, was “Crystal Blue Persuasion” … that went to #1 here in Chicago as well.
TJ: Well you know, Chicago has been SO good to us over the years … so many of my records broke out of Chicago and I don’t mean to keep harping on “Crimson And Clover,” but we almost blew the release on “Crimson And Clover” because I had gone up to WLS and played the rough mix … and they taped my rough mix and put it on the air as I’m leaving … I’m going back to the car and the radio’s on and I hear “WORLD EXCLUSIVE ON WLS – CRIMSON AND CLOVER” and all of a sudden the record starts and it wasn’t even the mixed record … I hadn’t mixed it yet … and they were playing the “work tape” … just the rough mix … and that’s how we had to release it. I never got a chance to final mix the record! We had to release my work tape of “Crimson And Clover.” It was a seven-and-a-half inch work tape and that became the record.
kk: That’s amazing … but it was SO competitive back then … everybody was trying to get the jump on everybody else and, as I’m sure you know, we had a HUGE competition here in Chicago with two 50,000 watt powerhouse Top 40 Radio Stations between WLS and WCFL …
TJ: Of course … and we kinda got caught right in the middle of all of that … but all I can say is that Chicago radio has been so good to us over the years and I grew up on Chicago radio. I grew up right in that area ... up around South Bend, Indiana, right across the state line, in Niles, Michigan, and so I grew up on Chicago radio.
Kk: Do you ever go back there? Do you still have family there or ties to that area in Michigan?
TJ: Oh sure … I have a house back there … I still have a home back there … and so I get back there every now and then … and my webmaster is living in the house that I used to live in back there … so it’s one big happy family.
Kk: I saw you at The Genesee Theater a couple of years ago and it cracked me up when you talked about the club you used to play there in Waukegan when you were just first starting out and how you tried to find it once you were back in the area.
TJ: (laughing) Yeah, and now it’s a slab of cement! That’s a true story!
In 1965, when I graduated from high school, we played up in Waukegan and we played at a club called The Club Adrian and had quite a following … and we were up there for about four months. And so I have many fond memories of that place. And the motel that we stayed in was right next door to it. So I went back there a couple of years ago when I started playing The Genesee Theater again and I went back to where the club was and it was just nothing but a slab of cement. (Laughing) Both the hotel and the club.
kk: Well, it’s a great song … and a favorite of mine now for over fifty years. Another big hit in 1969, of course, was “Crystal Blue Persuasion” … that went to #1 here in Chicago as well.
TJ: Well you know, Chicago has been SO good to us over the years … so many of my records broke out of Chicago and I don’t mean to keep harping on “Crimson And Clover,” but we almost blew the release on “Crimson And Clover” because I had gone up to WLS and played the rough mix … and they taped my rough mix and put it on the air as I’m leaving … I’m going back to the car and the radio’s on and I hear “WORLD EXCLUSIVE ON WLS – CRIMSON AND CLOVER” and all of a sudden the record starts and it wasn’t even the mixed record … I hadn’t mixed it yet … and they were playing the “work tape” … just the rough mix … and that’s how we had to release it. I never got a chance to final mix the record! We had to release my work tape of “Crimson And Clover.” It was a seven-and-a-half inch work tape and that became the record.
kk: That’s amazing … but it was SO competitive back then … everybody was trying to get the jump on everybody else and, as I’m sure you know, we had a HUGE competition here in Chicago with two 50,000 watt powerhouse Top 40 Radio Stations between WLS and WCFL …
TJ: Of course … and we kinda got caught right in the middle of all of that … but all I can say is that Chicago radio has been so good to us over the years and I grew up on Chicago radio. I grew up right in that area ... up around South Bend, Indiana, right across the state line, in Niles, Michigan, and so I grew up on Chicago radio.
Kk: Do you ever go back there? Do you still have family there or ties to that area in Michigan?
TJ: Oh sure … I have a house back there … I still have a home back there … and so I get back there every now and then … and my webmaster is living in the house that I used to live in back there … so it’s one big happy family.
Kk: I saw you at The Genesee Theater a couple of years ago and it cracked me up when you talked about the club you used to play there in Waukegan when you were just first starting out and how you tried to find it once you were back in the area.
TJ: (laughing) Yeah, and now it’s a slab of cement! That’s a true story!
In 1965, when I graduated from high school, we played up in Waukegan and we played at a club called The Club Adrian and had quite a following … and we were up there for about four months. And so I have many fond memories of that place. And the motel that we stayed in was right next door to it. So I went back there a couple of years ago when I started playing The Genesee Theater again and I went back to where the club was and it was just nothing but a slab of cement. (Laughing) Both the hotel and the club.
And so I asked the audience and nobody seemed to remember The Club Adrian. Every now and then it reminds you of how old you are … it puts things in perspective.
Kk: Right … and it’s all of that plus the fact that back in 1965, nobody even knew who Tommy James and the Shondells were yet. You were still a year from the big break-through.
TJ: (Laughing) That’s right.
KK: Which I always thought was a pretty amazing story in and of itself … fascinating, in fact … the fact that “Hanky Panky” had been recorded so much earlier than that … it’s just mind-boggling that three years later when everybody had already forgotten all about the record that a disc jockey on the east coast would start playing it and jump start what has turned into a fifty year career that's still going strong! Besides creating so much great material over the years, you’ve also had every lucky break that could possibly come your way! (laughing)
TJ: Well, I have been SO lucky … really, from “Hanky Panky” on, I have always had this feeling that The Good Lord was looking out for me … and he really has been … because we’ve had one little miracle after another … and it’s amazing that we’re still doing this.
TJ: (Laughing) That’s right.
KK: Which I always thought was a pretty amazing story in and of itself … fascinating, in fact … the fact that “Hanky Panky” had been recorded so much earlier than that … it’s just mind-boggling that three years later when everybody had already forgotten all about the record that a disc jockey on the east coast would start playing it and jump start what has turned into a fifty year career that's still going strong! Besides creating so much great material over the years, you’ve also had every lucky break that could possibly come your way! (laughing)
TJ: Well, I have been SO lucky … really, from “Hanky Panky” on, I have always had this feeling that The Good Lord was looking out for me … and he really has been … because we’ve had one little miracle after another … and it’s amazing that we’re still doing this.
I look out at our concerts now and I see literally three generations of people … and I’m so grateful … I mean, never in a million years did I ever think … especially starting out with a record like “Hanky Panky” … did I EVER think that we were going to be doing this for over fifty years.
kk: And the shows are still selling out everywhere you go. Here in Chicago, it’s a sell out every time you come to town!
TJ: Well, I love playing Chicago … it’s my old stomping grounds … and so what can I say … I grew up in the Midwest and I’m a Midwest kid … and proud of it.
kk: And the shows are still selling out everywhere you go. Here in Chicago, it’s a sell out every time you come to town!
TJ: Well, I love playing Chicago … it’s my old stomping grounds … and so what can I say … I grew up in the Midwest and I’m a Midwest kid … and proud of it.
More of my conversation with Tommy James ...
tomorrow in Forgotten Hits!
