I understand your desire to put together an “ultimate” classic rock
list, but in the end, it seems like it will be just another list. I mean,
it’s nearly impossible to objectively quantify such a beast.
From your blog last Friday:
>>>To have Ozzy Osbourne's
"Crazy Town" finish in The Top 30 but not have "Purple
Haze" even make The Top 100 has been enough to make me motivated to come
up with our OWN list of Classic Rock Favorites. (kk)
First of all, the song is titled “Crazy Train” and
I hear it A LOT on the classic rock stations that I listen to often. I’d
put in easily in the Top 500, if not higher. Not sure what you have
against Ozzy / Black Sabbath, but any such list without Sabbath’s “Iron Man”
and “Paranoid” in the Top 500 would be unthinkable to me.
You also mentioned Rush. That’s another group
that gets played A LOT on radio. Any list without “Tom Sawyer” or
“Limelight” high on it would be suspect (while their biggest Hot 100 hit “New
World Man” hardly ever gets played).
I’m sure there’s lots of regional influence on
these stations as well. I never even heard the song “Lake Shore Drive”
until I moved to Milwaukee in 1992 and I now consider it a minor classic.
“Never Been Any Reason” by Head East is a song that I literally grew up with in
Minnesota, but I doubt it’s very familiar to anybody outside the Midwest
markets.
You also mention studio versions vs. live
versions.
When I hear “Free Bird,” it’s almost always the
studio version. When I hear “Maybe I’m Amazed” these days, it’s almost
always the live version, just the opposite of what it was 10 years ago!
It’s also nearly impossible to put hard boundaries
on what constitutes “classic rock.” You mention that there should be some
classic Motown, but I NEVER hear such songs on today’s classic rock
radio. I also NEVER hear Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley, let alone Bill Haley
or ANY songs prior to 1964. Songs that you and I “think” should be played
simply aren’t and vice-versa. I’m always surprised to hear “Low Rider” by War on
a classic rock station. The stations that play it would never dream of
playing anything else by them.
It seems to me a better way to put together such a
list would be to look at the actual airplay stats as compiled by Nielsen or
Mediabase (they track many classic rock stations). I’d also do a google
search on the various classic rock radio station countdowns that have run over
the years. Surely you’d see “Crazy Train” high up on just about every
list.
Also, where do you draw the line, via time? I can see both sides of the argument that
Nirvana and Pearl Jam should be considered.
You can’t even go by chart position as the album
cut “Rock & Roll Band” by Boston gets way more airplay than their Top 5
smash “Don’t Look Back” does these days. Same goes for “Lights” by
Journey, which gets tons of airplay while several of their actual Top 40 hits
hardly get played at all! Ditto “Turn The Page” by Bob Seger, “Pink
Cadillac” by Bruce Springsteen and on and on.
These are just a few of the issues I can think of
off the top of my head.
All of that said, I do wish you luck. Your
final list will be interesting to see, but surely not without debate of its
own!
Paul Haney
Record Research
The reason “our list” won’t be "just another list” is because
OUR list will be built by the votes of thousands and thousands and thousands of Classic Rock
radio listeners and fans from all over the country … not something put together
by three guys holed up in a room over the weekend trying to put together a play
list for a special week-long countdown.
Will there be controversy?
Of course there will … as it should be … but my hope is that by the time
we do the big reveal of The Top 3333 Classic Rock Tracks, you’d be hard-pressed
to find something missing that you legitimately felt should be there. (And I also believe you’ll find the ranking
to be much closer to reality than say “Crazy Train” coming in at #29 ahead of “Touch
Me” by The Doors, “Take It Easy” by The Eagles, “Maybe I’m Amazed” by
McCartney, “Money For Nothing” by Dire Straits, “Dream On” by Aerosmith, “Go
Your Own Way” by Fleetwood Mac, “Brown Eyed Girl” by Van Morrison, “Whole Lotta
Love” by Led Zeppelin, “Honky Tonk Women” by The Rolling Stones, “Rock And
Roll” by Led Zeppelin, “Let It Be” by Paul McCartney, “La Grange” by ZZ Top and
“We Will Rock You / We Are The Champions” by Queen … and that’s just in The Top
50 that Sirius / XM came up with.
And oh yeah, guess what … on the way to #50, we had to pass
TWO MORE Ozzy songs: “Over The Mountain”
at #38 and “War Pigs” at #48. (So Ozzy deserves THREE of The Top 50 Classic Rock Tracks of All-Time??? I don't think so! To put that in perspective, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, Queen, Tom Petty and Aerosmith each only had TWO tracks make The Top 50 ... and Bruce Springsteen and Fleetwood Mac only had one. Not exactly the same league, wouldn't you agree???)
Is my point a bit clearer now? Does “Crazy Train” belong? Sure it does … but NOT in the #29 position …
and certainly not at the expense of so many other great tracks that truly DO
deserve that honor.
It’s not a personal beef I have against Ozzy and Black Sabbath … I
would agree that “Iron Man” and “Black Sabbath” and “Crazy Train” and even a
few others absolutely belong on a list of Top 3333 Favorites … and I feel confident that several titles by these guys will make the final cut ... but probably nowhere near the 16 tracks that made Sirius / XM's Top 1000.
And that's exactly the point I’m objecting to. The list that Sirius / XM put
together gives Ozzy SIXTEEN of the Top 1000 spots … that’s more than The
Eagles, Elton John, AC/DC, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Paul
McCartney, The Cars, The Police, Bruce Springsteen, John Mellencamp, Eric
Clapton, Journey, Genesis, Aerosmith, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Crosby, Stills, Nash And
Young, U2, Jimi Hendrix, Pat Benatar, Boston, Steve Miller, Foreigner, Queen,
ZZ Top, Billy Joel, Steely Dan, Doobie Brothers, Heart, ELO, Santana, Styx, The
Moody Blues, The Kinks, Eddie Money, Supertramp, Chicago, Yes and REO
Speedwagon … to name but a few.
You cannot tell me that even for a millisecond … in ANY
universe … you could possibly believe that this should be the case.
THAT’S why we need to come up with this list.
And sure, I could go to any variety of Classic Rock Station
Countdowns online … but that also defeats the purpose of our Reality Poll of actual
Classic Rock Music Fans. All THOSE lists
will prove is what we have maintained all along throughout the entire existence
of Forgotten Hits … radio plays the SAME 500 songs EVERYWHERE you go because
these are the songs that the consultants have determined to be the ONLY songs
listeners want to hear … and we aim to prove them wrong once again.
By appealing to the only people who matter, we’re polling THE
LISTENERS. I believe we will all see these lists from a totally new perspective once the people who really matter weigh in on the subject. (And let's face it ... where else can they really do so?)
Now I promise you … every single one of those 500
cookie-cutter songs will make our list … and rank very HIGH on it as well … as
they should … both because they’re great songs and because we’ve all been
programmed to believe these are the tracks we’re supposed to associate with
Classic Rock.
We want more.
We want each and every one of you to dig deep and tell us the
tracks YOU believe belong on a list such as this … with no restrictions.
Yeah, there’ll be some oddballs here … you won’t believe some
of the suggestions we’ve received so far … but MY opinion will have absolutely NO
influence here … because this is YOUR list … which is why it will NEVER be
“just another list.”
And, for the record, to date … as I type this … Ozzy and
Black Sabbath have exactly five votes TOTAL between them. Meanwhile we’ve already got eleven songs with
over 500 votes each … so if things keep up at this rate, there’s a good chance
that Ozzy WON’T make the final Top 500. Not MY choosing ... but as determined by Classic Rock America and the votes that THEY have cast.
But it’s early … this is gonna take months … if things
somehow turn around between now and the end of our poll, I’ll be the first one
to admit that I’ve misjudged the significance of Ozzy's role in Classic Rock
history, throw a party, invite the whole list and serve bat-head hors d'oeuvres! (kk)
Other updates:
As I type this, “Hotel California”
has a significant lead on our list. (It came in at #8 on theirs.) The
Sirius / XM chart-topper, “Stairway To Heaven,” is also doing well, as are many
of the most expected candidates: “Honky
Tonk Women,” “Layla,” “Sweet Home Alabama,” “Bohemian Rhapsody,” “More Than A
Feeling” and “Dream On,” all of which are currently fixed in The Top Ten.
In nearly every case, this reflects a FAR
better showing than the Sirius / XM list where “Sweet Home Alabama” came in at #13, “Bohemian Rhapsody” at #16, “Dream On” at #36
and “Honky Tonk Women” at #50. (This also means that our readers aren’t
quite as enamored with the tracks “You Really Got Me” by Van Halen, “Won’t Get
Fooled Again” by The Who, “Sympathy For The Devil” by The Rolling Stones and
“Knocking On Heaven’s Door” by Bob Dylan as Sirius / XM would have you believe
… all of these finished in their Top Ten … yet currently rank at numbers #125,
#24, #101 and #200 respectively on our list.)
We’re also finding The Eagles FAR
AND AWAY the #1 Vote-Getter thus far.
They placed 15 titles on the Sirius list, but already have 26 titles
nominated in our tally.
However, we’re going to use a
different methodology to determine the most popular artists when we compute our
final list. They can’t be ranked solely by
the numbers of titles selected … as this leaves “limited run” acts like Blind
Faith and Derek and the Dominos at a distinct disadvantage, despite the fact
that “Layla” currently sits at #3 on our list and “Can’t Find My Way Home” is
already closing in on 300 votes. We’re
currently investigating other ways to more accurately portray an artist’s
significance on our chart recap.
Also:
Regarding the live vs. studio
tracks, I firmly believe the McCartney solo version of “Maybe I’m Amazed” is
the DEFINITIVE version ... and should be acknowledged as such. I agree with you
that we hear the live version more often these days … and think that this is
because the live version was released as a single seven years after the
McCartney album came out … but that doesn’t make it right … and this list wants
to get it right.
I hear the live version of “Free Bird”
FAR more often than the studio version … and it’s a FAR more exciting
version. (Honestly, I’d prefer to leave
ALL live versions out of the mix but it just isn’t practical. How many people out there REALLY had ever
heard the studio versions of “Show Me The Way,” “Baby, I Love Your Way” or “Do
You Feel Like I Do” on the radio before the Frampton Comes Alive album came
out? Same with Cheap Trick’s “I Want You
To Want Me.” I’m just trying to avoid
having duplicates on the list.
How
close are we to having 3333 titles to choose from? About halfway there! (Not bad for only our second week of polling!!!) But again, it is going to take awhile
in order to ensure the accuracy of such a poll by taking in the maximum number of votes
possible in a reasonable amount of time.
And I may consult whatever sources
are available online regarding actual airplay and play lists of Classic Rock
Programming … but only as a barometer and check list to make sure we’ve
accounted for everything that needs to be on there. I may also monitor airplay by what we actually hear being played thru a variety of sources. (Did I mention that Toto’s “Africa” did not
make The Sirius / XM Top 1000 List?!?!
Nor did, I just realized the other day, Led Zeppelin’s absolute classic
“Heartbreaker / Livin’ Lovin’ Maid,” a built-in two-fer that has NEVER been off
the radio since it was first released in 1970 … yet FAR lesser heard Zeppelin fare
like “Gallows Pole,” “Ten Years Gone,” “Four Sticks” and “Thank You” made the
cut. Also missing … Gerry Rafferty! Sure, “Stuck In The Middle With You” is on
there (#266) … but what about “Baker Street” and “Right Down The Line,” two
Classic Rock / FM staples!!! We don’t want to make ANY mistakes of that
magnitude when we compile ours.
I agree with your assessment that
the “starting point” for Classic Rock candidates seems to be 1964, the dawn of
The British Invasion. We don’t see many
early rockers on the list so far … not even Elvis (although radio today has a
way of implying that The King really only had two hits … “Suspicious Minds” and
“Burning Love” … unless, of course, you count the 2002 remix of "A Little Less Conversation! (Right!) Unfortunately, radio today would ALSO have
you believe that the most important song The Rolling Stones ever did was “Miss
You”!!! Seriously?!?! When this thing
first came out, the rock and roll world shuddered … are you kidding me?!?! The Stones are doing DISCO?!?!
We have also received (to date)
eight votes for Bo Diddley … an unlikely candidate perhaps (but still more
votes than all of Ozzy Osbourne’s combined … so dig THAT perspective!!!)
To me it makes sense … again, Bo’s
shuffle beat inspired SO many artists over the years … which is why you’ll see
some very early Stones tracks here (as well as George Thorogood’s “Who Do You
Love,” an FM-Rock staple.) It has always seemed odd to me that
Classic Rock Radio will play Buddy Holly covers like “Not Fade Away” by The
Stones, “Words Of Love” by The Beatles and any variety of Linda Ronstadt tracks
… but wouldn’t dream of featuring any of Buddy’s originals. (To this point, you will hear an early track
like “That’ll Be The Day” and/or “Peggy Sue” from time to time … as well as the
odd Everly Brothers tracks.) Maybe this
list will help to change that.
Fifteen years ago we regularly ran
comments on radio’s “Overplayed List” … Bob Seger, Billy Joel, Steve Miller and
John Mellencamp were always near the top of those lists … but we’re hearing a
bit more variety from these artists now after radio caused us all to OD on
heavily saturated tracks like “Only The Good Die Young,” “Jack And Diane,” “Old Time
Rock And Roll” and “Take The Money And Run.”
That’s why, as you mentioned, you’ll hear a whole lot more “Turn The Page” these days …
perhaps radio has finally recognized the error of their ways, causing listener
burn-out. I believe this is also the
reason you don’t hear “Stairway To Heaven” nearly as much as you used to, too.
(Let us enjoy and appreciate a good song rather than beating us over the head with
it!!! LONG a Forgotten Hits credo!)
And, quite honestly, the criteria has shifted … without a
doubt. In 1982, when John Cougar
Mellencamp released his “American Fool” album, tracks like “Hurt So Good” and
“Jack And Diane” rocked as hard as anything else on the radio at the time. You wouldn’t DREAM of programming these
tracks on the soft rock / adult contemporary stations where they’re heard every
day today! (Incredibly, both of these tracks were “after
thoughts” … when the record company told Mellencamp they “didn’t hear a
single,” John went back to the song-writing well and came up with these two off
the cuff … the last tracks recorded for the album … and both went on to become
monster, timeless hits!)
As for another comment, we have received a few votes for Pearl
Jam tracks … only one for Nirvana so far. Way too early to tell if they'll make the final countdown. Do they belong? That’s up to you
… this is YOUR list, people … and because of this, it will NEVER be “just
another list.”
We
just want to get it right ... which is why we are enlisting the help of
ALL of the Classic Rock Fans out there to do so ... so please help us
to spread the word. Tell your friends to cast their votes. Contact your local classic rock radio stations and ask them to get onboard by polling their listeners.
This is a nationwide poll, people ... let's maximize the voting pool to get the best results possible.
Meanwhile, KEEP THOSE VOTES COMIN’, FOLKS …
