Helping Out Our Readers

re:  MIDNIGHT SUN:  
>>>My husband (age 61) and his sister (age 63) asked me to find a song.  They think it was on the b side of a Ventures' record (???)  The song title is Midnight Sun and it was done with electric or steel guitars.  Any web link please.  (Rosetta Link)

>>>I don't see "Midnight Sun" listed as any of their charted singles (A-Side OR B-Side).  I checked a couple on online Ventures discographies, too, and don't see this title listed ... so I'm thinking that either the title ... or artist ... is wrong.  Let's see if any of our Forgotten Hits sleuths out there can come up with anything on this one.  (kk) >>>One of your readers wanted to know who did an instrumental called MIDNIGHT SUN. When I saw that song title, I knew it from somewhere but didn't know exactly. I am not sure but I believe it was done by a Ventures sounding group called the Five Whispers out of the early 1960's. I believe the group in question, The Five Whispers, recorded for Dolton Records, the same label as you know the Ventures recorded for. Whether the Five Whispers were the same group as the Ventures, I don't know. I believe through the years at times an artist or group would make a record using another name other than their own.

(Larry Neal)

>>>Wow, good call!!!  The Five Whispers DID, in fact, record for Dolton Records and "Midnight Sun" was as close as they ever came to a hit single back in 1962.  (It "Bubbled Under" on Billboard's Hot 100 Singles Chart, reaching #115.)  According to Joel Whitburn's indispensable "Top Pop Singles" book, The Five Whispers were actual a brother duo out of California named Bobby and Larry Black.  Chalk it up to another Forgotten Hits conquest.  (kk)  

Or maybe not ... seems like Rosetta had the song wrong all together!  Read on!  
Thanks for helping but I found the song they were looking for it was by Santo & Johnny – Sleepwalk, 1959.

I do have a couple more if you want to give it a shot ... I don’t know the titles ... only a few lyrics of each song:

1.  Johnny Mathis - Don’t look for me to be waiting at the booth we always shared;

Don’t look for me to walk in the door ... I won’t be there.

2.  Jack Greene (????) - Once I stood as high as a mountain;

Like a giant I could see all around the world was mine because I found a love ...

but like a giant I came tumbling to the ground.

3.  Nat King Cole - You used me for a stepping stone 'til someone better came along; Who’s next in line

Good Luck!

Rosetta

I'll leave these to the readers to figure out.  "Sleep Walk", of course, was a HUGE #1 Hit back in 1959 ... and was recently voted your "All-Time Favorite Instrumental" by our Forgotten Hits Readers.  

(You can find the results of that poll here ... Click here: Forgotten Hits - Top 40 Instrumentals, 1955 - 1979 ... along with an actual mathematical ranking of the Biggest Instrumental Hits of the Rock Era.  (kk)

Hey Kent,
"Back in the day", I got interested in playing the vibraphone. The most famous player of the instrument, was Lionel Hampton. On my search of 45s, at a local used record store, I found "Midnight Sun", written and performed by Hamp. The label of the record was Glad-Hamp Records, Inc. His wife Gladys was his business manager, and co-producer of the recording. I found out that it was released in 1954, a year before Billboard Magazine came out with their Hot 100, so who knows how far it would have charted? For a song, at that time, it was very creative and listenable, and, of course, it was one of the first songs I learned to play on the vibes!
I really enjoyed listening to The Five Whispers' version of the tune. There's something about those surf-guitar songs that really make me smile. Speaking of guitar groups, I heard Davie Allan and the Arrows'  hit, "Blue's Theme" again, not long ago. Maybe they should be considered for "Best Garage Band". Makes you want get on your chopper and ride!

-- John LaPuzza

Even though The Hot 100 Chart hadn't started yet in 1954, Billboard has been charting popular music since the late 1890's ... so charts DO exist for the music of this era.  Sad to say that "Midnight Sun" is NOT one of the records to make those charts ... but Hampton DID have two other Top Ten Billboard Best Sellers ... "Hey! Ba-Ba-Re-Bop" reached #9 in 1946 and, four years later, his version of "Rag Mop" peaked at #10.

As for Davie Allan and the Arrows, they earned quite a few votes in our recently completed Best Garage Bands Poll ... we're hoping to have the final results posted in a couple of weeks!  (kk)  

For those who may not be aware, I wanted to mention that "Midnight Sun" was written by Lionel Hampton, Sonny Burke and Johnny Mercer - a team of greats. It's a beautiful song, melodically, harmonically and lyrically, and has been recorded many times. (In the rock era it was also done by Santo & Johnny.)  It's probably the only song to ever use "aurora borealis" in a rhyme!  :- )

Gary E. Myers / MusicGem 
http://www.music-gem.com/index.html

Looking at Rosetta's response above (and the reference to Santo and Johnny's "Sleep Walk"), I cannot help but wonder if her husband and sister were, in fact, familiar with the Santo and Johnny version of "Midnight Sun" and didn't even realize it.  Maybe they had it on an album or something(???)  kk

Of course, for ME ... being a connoisseur of the '60's and '70's ... when I think of "Midnight Sun", I think of the GREAT Badfinger album track ... so we've got THAT one for you here today, too!  (kk)

See? Us old guys still get a lot out of Forgotten Hits. Midnight Sun is one from the Great American Songbook.  
"Midnight Sun" (1954) was originally an instrumental composed by Lionel Hampton and Sonny Burke in 1947 and is now considered a jazz standard. Subsequently, Johnny Mercer wrote the words to the song. One famous recording of the song with the Mercer lyrics is by Ella Fitzgerald on her album Like Someone in Love (1957).

The Mercer lyric is poetry. The most famous recording in my memory was by June Christie. You can post this version or not. Might not appeal to anybody in the r & r era but one never knows.

Hil

 

re:  NIKI HOEKY:

Could this be the original to the Burton Cummings tune?

This was on Burton's first solo album.
I never thought about where it might have come from at the time. I think I just assumed he wrote it since I had never heard it before.
I figured I needed an expert for this.
Hope you don't mind.
Bill

Sure is ... P.J. Proby scored a #23 Billboard Hit with "Niki Hoeky back in 1967.  I wasn't familiar with it either when I first heard it on Burton Cumming's first solo LP ... because it never charted here in Chicago. 
(I have heard it several times since, however ... so maybe Burton's rendition helped to make it popular again!)  This one kind of reminds me of a Billy Joe Royal tune as it sounds like something HE might have recorded.  Proby became a HUGE star in England (and I remember doing a Forgotten Hits profile on him many, many years ago ... unfortunately, it's no longer in our archives or I'd share it with you now.)  Instead, let's just feature the song!  (kk)

re:  TIDE RECORDS:

In order to free up space for another site, I plan to take down my Tide Records Story (which includes the Larry Bright Story). If any of that material is of interest to you, it's probably best to visit the site by June 15 or thereabouts.
http://tiderecordsstory.weebly.com/index.html 
I'd also be happy to hear from anyone with an interest or additional info on the label or any of its artists/releases.
Gary E. Myers / MusicGem 
http://www.music-gem.com/index.html

re:  THE CONQUESTS:  
>>>A number of years ago on Top Shelf Oldies I heard Dave The Rave play a KILLER 45 on the Gail record label called Is It Right by the Conquests. I ended up buying a copy of the 45 on ebay only to find that it had a huge scratch in what was supposed to be a mint unplayed record.  I sent it back to the seller who offered me his only other copy of the 45, on what appeared to be an earlier pressing on a label that simply said "The Conquest". Of course I took it.  Well, the only information I could find out was that it was written by a guy named John Rooney. It showed a publisher listing as "Ticklish Tunes, Inc.". My initial guess upon first hearing this song was that it probably was recorded in 1965, and I found on one website a listing for a "dissolved" corporation called Ticklish Tunes, Inc. which was formed in September of 1965 (It does not list when the company was dissolved).  Additional research has me at a dead end ... I have no way of contacting the songwriter, John Rooney, since the publishers information on BMI is clearly long out of date, or finding out any information on group members (assuming Rooney was one even of the group members, as Is It Right is listed as his only songwriting credit -- a damn good song to write if it's going to be your only one, if you ask me).  Perhaps you can "put this out there" and see if any of your Chicagoland readers might be able to come up with anything for me? I'm also sending you the song as I think you'd really enjoy it (for all I know maybe the record got played in Chicago or maybe the group did live gigs around Chicago and it might bring back memories for you or any other local residents).

Tom Diehl

I think both sides of the Conquest 45 are nice. I may have gotten Dave his copy, but I'm not sure. It’s a 45 I push when I find one. I believe it is from 1967 though. That’s the info I got at one time years ago.

Ken

Once again in my haste to get this out there, I neglected to post the tune!  Here it is in the event that it rings a bell with any of our "local" listeners out there.  (kk)

re: IF YOU GOTTA MAKE A FOOL OF SOMEBODY:

Hey Kent,
One of your readers is not exactly keen about Freddie and the Dreamers' version of "If You Gotta Make a Fool of Somebody".  You know I'm a huge fan of the group, but I have to admit that the song is not one of my favorites, either. I mainly like the way the group choreographed it. What a hoot! What I understand is that the recording is a carbon copy of the way The Beatles played it in the cavern pubs, as Freddie and the boys witnessed. The harmonica intro really reminds me of John Lennon's stylings. When the The Beatles found out about it, they were livid, but this is the incident that made them want to leave their cover band status behind, and begin to record their own compositions. Soon after, the two bands became pretty close.

- John LaPuzza

I couldn't find anything on The Beatles doing this track ... but I DID find a Freddie and the Dreamers video ... man, I think we've already given them more press in Forgotten Hits lately then they got back in 1965!!!  (lol)  kk

re:  BOBBY WHITESIDE:

Any truth to the rumor that Somebody New was actually sung by Bobby Whiteside and not the Rivieras?  Sure SOUNDS like Bobby Whiteside.  Play it back to back with Say it Softly.
Allan 

That could easily be true.  Whiteside was very prolific in the short Destination Records era and without searching hard, I believe one of his B sides, "I'm Goin Your Way" was also a 45 side for the Warner Brothers "I'm Goin Your Way" single.  USA and Destination were always doing goofy things with B sides / A sides.  They even did a Dickie Goodman type 45 that included Beatles songs and was actually sold in stores, as it made a Top 40 radio chart I have.  I doubt the Beatles would have allowed such for the really bad 45 this was.  

WLSClark  

re:  SHEILA:

Kent,
What's your take on this? Have you ever heard this, which sounds like a remake but apparently really isn't? (And why hasn't this guy posted this as his first 45 on FH?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Ll2frWOB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CebeeI7cbMs&list=UUI6m5k8fNWwZByAP

David Lewis

LOL ... I love all the back-and-forths on the comments on this one!  Anybody know for sure what's going on here?  (I sent this to Tommy Roe to see if I could get his take on all of this!)  Several months ago we ran the original Judd version vs. Tommy's #1 Hit release ... but this is apparently something different yet again.  Hopefully he'll get back to us with some details!  (kk)

I really don't know about this one ... it sounds like a different mix of the original hit in 1962, but I'm really not sure. If you find out where this came from, let me know. A Rock "n" Roll mystery. 

Tommy Roe   

re:  ON THE RADIO:

With all the jocks on the list, hopefully this will be an easy mystery to solve ...

Kent ...

I like to call this one "WCBS-FM Mysteries" ...Inquiring listeners want to know!

Mystery #1:  Bob Shannon is normally on the air, Monday to Friday, 10 AM to 3 PM.

He hasn't been on the radio for at least two months.  Everyday, whoever takes his place announces -- "So & So, filling in for Bob Shannon."  He couldn't be on vacation for that long a period of time. If he quit or got fired, they wouldn't be mentioning his name 

everyday. If he's sick, why wouldn't they say so?  So what's REALLY going on with Bob Shannon?
Mystery #2:  Joe Causey is on Saturdays from 7 PM to Midnight with "Saturday Night Seventies".  The rest of the week, he's on from Midnight to 6 AM. For the last month and a half, he's only doing his Saturday Night Show. The rest of the week, the DJ says his name and says he's filling in for Joe Causey. We know Joe is there 'cause he does the Saturday Night Show ... but there's been mo explanation as to why he not on the rest of the week. When I ask, nobody seems to know what's going on.
Any ideas?
Frank B.

Well, as of this morning, both jocks are still listed on the website and have their pictures posted ... so maybe somebody out there in radioland can fill us in on this one!  (Let's face it ... the deejay world has always been one of "musical chairs" ... ask the same question a week from now and you might get a different answer!)  kk  

re:  HELPING OUT OUR READERS:

With our wide array of knowledgeable readers across the country, we're batting right around 95% when it comes to solving some of these musical mysteries.  Here's one perfectly crafted for Larry Neal of KOMA in Oklahoma City to answer! 

I grew up in OKC in the 60s and listened during the day to KOMA and on clear nights could get  WLS in Chicago.

But I saw regional hits mentioned and I have one that I have been trying to find the name of the band that did it.  
The song was I Never Promised You A Rose Garden, and it was a local OKC band I think and it was song by a guy instead of a woman.

Would anyone know the band ?

Thanks in Advance,

Kim Winfrey

Kent,

More than happy to oblige. The song in question is ROSE GARDEN, the Joe South composition, recorded by Lynn Anderson on a bigger national scale. The group that did it here in OKC was known as the 3rd Avenue Blues Band. It came out in 1969 on Revue Records, a division of MCA, Inc. The flip side was COME ON AND GET IT written by H.D. Rogers. Incidentally, H.D. Rogers first name was Harlan, who happened to have the lead vocal on said record.

A year earlier in 1968, they had an even bigger record here in OKC called IT'S GOT TO BE LOVE, which was also written by H.D. Rogers. Trust me, if you were living in OKC back in the years 1968 - 1969, you most definitely would remember these songs, if not who actually recorded them.

Larry

This sounds like it might be the one. I was in the hospital with the lead singer for a week or so and the band came in and saw him during that time.

They gave me a copy of the 45 but I lost it when I moved to the east coast about a year later. Have searched in vain for another copy.  
Thank you for the information.  
Your newsletter is awesome ... I don't know how many subscribers I have sent your way!

Thanks again,

Kim Winfrey

Hey Kent,
I was just driving home, listening to the radio, when "She Believes in Me" by Kenny Rogers came on, to re-kindle my anger, as it did in '79. If you listen to the bridge of the song, it is a carbon copy of Bread's "Lost Without Your Love", a hit, three years earlier. Do you know if any legal action came about over the two similar sounding songs? Did David Gates go after the composer of Rogers' hit? The biggest lawsuit I can remember was when George Harrison was clobbered by the producers of the Chiffons' "He's So Fine" (do-lang-do-lang). That and other copyright contentions could be an interesting subject in the future to dive into.

- John LaPuzza

I'll agree that there are some similarities between the two (but I don't think it's any more "borrowing" than The Beach Boys do with their new track, "That's Why God Made The Radio" and "Midnight Cowboy.")  
I remember a couple of years ago when Lady Antebellum won the "Best Song" Grammy for "I Need You Now" and Howard Kaylan of The Turtles commented that he couldn't believe this song won the top honor ... since Alan Parsons had already written it several years ago as "Eye In The Sky"!  So many songs "borrow" from others it's hard to keep track sometimes.  I checked Timothy English's book "Sounds Like Teen Spirit" to see if this is one of the titles he mentioned as being remarkably similar, but I don't see it listed. (I also dropped him a line to see if he thought this pair might qualify.)

As for "He's So Fine" and "My Sweet Lord", I just never bought into the whole thing ... and now that I've seen the remarkable Martin Scorsese documentary, I believe more than ever that ANY plagiarizing going on was done subconsciously ... especially after listening to Billy Preston talking about how they started playing around with gospel chords and backgrounds.  Jonathan King had some fun (at Harrison's expense) however with this tune ... so we'll share that one again for you all.  (kk)

I have a song recorded on a cassette that is about shot and discarded most of our vinyl years ago (not smart) I think it may be sung or written by Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart and have researched them and Andy Kim as after this song is the song I Wonder What She's Doing Tonight which I have on the LP Andy Kim, How'd We Ever Get This Way, no date on LP, but think it was purchased around late 60's.

Here are the words as near as I can remember them, hope you can help!

Girl I('ve) heard the words you said, those two simple words I dread to hear you speak, then say good-bye, then you tell me not to cry, well how can I hold back these tears, when you just wiped away the years, oh what am I gonna do, what am I gonna do with all of these memories, with all these - what am I gonna do with all the "mumbled", what am I gonna do without you, what am I gonna do if I don't have you ... ooh ooh hoo ooh ooh

Don't let me stand in your way, you've said the things you've come to say, this don't you think what I've just lost this conversation has just cost me, everything that's tragedy now girl you've got to answer me oh what am I gonna do, what am I gonna do, what am I gonna do, if I don't ave you, ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ... musical refrain fades out            what am I gonna do?????????? softly

Sincerely,

missing my old songs ...

Shannon Sherrer

Sorry, but I don't recognize it ... but I'll betcha somebody else on the list will.  Stay tuned!  (kk)

LAST KISS: The Controversy Continues Today in Forgotten Hits

It's the "history" that won't go away.  

Since we first published our in-depth article on the story behind "Last Kiss" and the group The Cavaliers who recorded it, we've received numerous emails from folks claiming to have been involved with the band and the song and knowing special details and circumstances surrounding one or the other.

Yesterday we ran a copy of a correspondence we received out of the blue (I say out of the blue because our original  article has been circulating for about ten years now!) from Leo Lucas, the man who reportedly owns the rights to the name "The Cavaliers" at this time.  
In it, he blasts us for listening to one of Leo's former "support players", Arnie Karr, who he accuses of falsely spreading "facts" about Leo's involvement with the original band as part of our fact-finding mission when originally putting the article together.  (Clearly there is some bad blood between these two!)  He then goes on to restate his claim that he WAS involved on the original recording of the hit song ... although NOTHING we have EVER come across in the past ten years has ever indicated this to be the case.  Short of stating that it's so, Leo offered nothing in the way of proof in his letter that would make me rethink or alter my original findings.  In typical Forgotten Hits fashion, we stated AGAIN that we will continue to present "The Most Accurate Truth" possible ... and that if he can prove otherwise, we will gladly acknowledge and amend our findings.

We have since heard from both Arnie Karr and Leo Lucas again on this matter.  Forgiving the obvious sour grapes, both state their cases with what I believe to be true conviction in their hearts.  However, reading through these again as I do the final edit for today's column, I feel that I must point out that nothing offered by Leo causes me to deviate from my original position.  (You'll find my comments below his.)

If you haven't read the original article yet, here is the link again.  It's lengthy ... and VERY detailed ... in fact, we have since renamed it "The Convoluted Story Behind The History of the Song 'Last Kiss'" because that's exactly what it is ... you'll literally need a score card just to follow along ... but it may help you better understand my feelings surrounding this latest, new controversy over its origins and those involved with it.

Click here: Forgotten Hits - LAST KISS: The Incredible, Convaluted Story Behind This #1 Classic Hit!

Kent --  

First of all, I wasn't "hiding" when Leo was in Vietnam -- I was in high school!  My draft number was 246 and by the time my year, 1953, came up, we weren't sending "fresh" troops to Nam so there was never any reason to hide.  On this Memorial Day weekend, I salute Leo Lucas for his service!

Now that I've defended my patriotism and praised him for his service, let me quickly address the rest of what Leo had to say.  First of all, Leo doesn't write this well and I'm sure someone else wrote the letter for him. Secondly, my understanding is that he did have the legal right to the name starting in 1990 and I was never aware of him using it illegally or without authorization.  Nor did I ever accuse him of doing so. Fourthly, if I wasn't his "music director" or "music arranger," he never should have introduced me that way while on stage. But he always did.

I've had no contact with Leo in more than two years -- I've often described them as some of the best years of my life and Jamie Holman, who was Leo's drummer for longer than I was the keyboardist, feels the same.  Leo's reputation is as a liar and a sneak and I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.  To be fair, however, I played a lot of gigs with him starting in about 1995 and he was responsible for me getting a good reputation on the oldies circuit where he resided.  From what I've heard, he's been working with another keyboard player and also with tracks, although I haven't heard of him doing any gigs lately.  That might be because he's doing them privately or elsewhere. To use one of my favorite expressions, I just don't know, but at least I admit it!  By the way, before seeing what Leo wrote to you, I had NO idea he bore me any ill will at all. It read like it was written by a lawyer who happened to have no knowledge of punctuation!

But let me be clear about the essence of Leo's "counter-charges." In more than a decade of playing behind this guy -- who, by the way, is pretty much tone deaf and, outside of being a friendly, even charming front man, has no discernible musical talent -- I never saw a single piece of evidence to support the idea that he was involved in the writing, producing or recording of Last Kiss in any way, shape or form.  I heard him tell people he was, but never saw any proof of it.  The stories I read all had the song being written and recorded in Texas in 1960 and making it as a hit in 1964. There are no pictures of the hit-era Cavaliers with Leo in them.  His name doesn't appear in any of the articles about the song, its composition or recording. It also seems strange to me that the name "Cavaliers" pretty much vanished from the tri-state area oldies world around the time that New York's Truth In Music law kicked in. I don't believe now and didn't believe then that Leo was an original member of the Cavaliers.  Again, I don't dispute that he owns the name. It's possible that everything he says about his involvement with the group in his note to you may be true. I remember his saying that he talked to J. Frank Wilson's brother in the process of "clearing" the name.

But in all the years I dealt with him, Leo was never able to produce a single shred of evidence to suggest that he was involved in the recording of the song or with Josie Music in any capacity whatsoever.  And because I write for a living, I often talked to Leo about putting together material for a web site that would show the usual stuff you see on web sites plus some material about the "early days" when Leo and J. Frank had their loose "connection." This was early in my relationship with him and Leo assured me that material would be forthcoming. It never was. So Leo never produced anything to document his claims, outside of his ownership, and I just took it for what I believed it was -- he was pretending to have a connection to the original song although none existed.  I asked everyone in a position to know, including Vito Balsamo (who I'm working with tonight, as a matter of fact), and no one believes that Leo had this connection.  If he's able to document some kind of a connection, please let me know!  I've been looking for it for 15 years!

The words used in Leo's response to you remind me a lot of a fight that's gone on with another group I'm involved in, The Chaperones, where original members have battled with subsequent members over ownership.  The putdown about "bar bands" appeared in that nasty exchange, too. Just for the record, I did play a bar gig in a suburb last summer but generally do concerts, fairs and private gigs.  But if that's the best putdown available, OK, I'll take it. If I was such a fake, as characterized, Leo tolerated me in my pretense for more than a decade. And I tolerated his inability to hit his notes because, after all, he was the one getting the gigs. Along with his military service, I salute him for that, too.

One other thing that struck me is that Leo is claiming to have been in on the RE-RECORDING of Last Kiss, so he's not even claiming to have been on the original record.

And speaking of the original record, I believe it was recorded in 1960, when I was 7. It was a hit in 1964 when Leo says he was in Vietnam but, for the record, I wasn't dodging the draft but was actually in Mr. Voigt's sixth-grade class.

Based on your response, it seems that you've got Leo's number and that the record stands as is, as it should. I've been a journalist my entire adult life and practically clapped when you said to Leo, as I would say to a source or John Lennon would sing, "all I want is some proof ... just give me some proof."

Lastly, he totally misstates my involvement with the group. I wasn't a fill-in; I was a regular member for a very long time.  I didn't arrange all the Cavs songs, but I arranged a lot of them.  I was flattered when Leo introduced me as the music arranger or director and thought it might have been a bit of an overstatement, but that's what he said.  Repeatedly. And over the course of more than 10 years. And I've got a long list of people who can support what I've said on my role in the group as well as the lack of evidence anyone ever received about any real connection between Leo, the original group and the original (as opposed to re-recorded) song: guitarists Ed Merin and Dom DiPaolo; bassists Bruce Natali and Frank Tamburello; drummer Jamie Holman and sub Phil Sala; and just about all the singers Leo worked with: not just the aforementioned Vito Balsamo (who sang great tonight, by the way) but also Randy Silver, Tom Powers, Al Diaz, Joey Vespe and Warren Tesoro, as well as the Chaperones with whom the Cavs briefly merged: Tony Ferrari, Frank Alfino and Cathy Santiniello.

But that's really neither here nor there.  I was never out to defame Leo but had a very hard time sitting there silent when he'd tell an audience that "one day we walked into a studio and came out with what would be the #1 hit in the nation, the last of the car-crash songs."  I'm like you -- I don't know that you're wrong, but give me something to prove that you're right.  Leo never did that.  And to this very day, he still hasn't.  Hard to believe he reacted to the FH article ten years later -- maybe he thought his version of the truth would prevail by default.  There may be mysteries about the derivation and history of the Cavaliers, but none of these genesis stories involve Mr. Leo Lucas, of Brooklyn and Suffolk County, N.Y.  Let the record speak for itself!

Best,

Arnie

Hi Kent - 

Thank you for getting back to me. As far as original Cavaliers LAST KISS, the group from Texas with Wilson is legit down there. As you must know, there were only three of them on the Josie track.  We re-did the song in the studio in New York with Wilson showing up late with his so-called manager, Sonny.  He was a great guy for all his problems. As far as Arnie knowing any group business, WHY???  We never give out info to people like him. In our business you can see what happens to the info ... someone always takes it to make themselves feel important.  Please don’t take this the wrong way ... Arnie Karr is a real nice guy, but he always looks for attention. If you check, you will see that I have had the trademark for some time ... but I don’t need to show it to every fill in musician.  I'm sure that you can understand that.  I was employed by JOSIE RECORDS in 1964 and then our group went into the service. When we came out we found out the song we worked on was a big hit.  At that time we really didn’t care ... we just got back from Viet Nam and two of us who were lucky enough to make it home were all shot up and hated the world. It took us some time to recover. In the early 80’s we performed for Gus Gossett in New York and we started at that time.  You know it really don’t make a difference who was there or not.  I spoke to Sid Holmes a lot of times about this and he agrees with me. As long as we keep Frank’s name alive and the Cavaliers going, that’s all that matters. 

You do a good job, but we just have to be careful not to blow what all of us worked so hard to get.

Thanks,

Leo 

A few things strike me in Leo's latest response ... and I'll even go so far as to take the position of saying that I really WANT to believe him ... we just need to be convinced in order to do so.

#1 - If The Cavaliers re-recorded the song in New York that became the hit single version in 1964 and used Josie Records' on-staff studio musicians, that is not at all uncommon for the way records were being made at the time.  Leo's letter would indicate that "there were only three of them on that track" ... again, a believable claim if the rest of music was filled in by seasoned session players.  As we've learned in Forgotten Hits over the years, this sort of thing happened all of the time.  However, if this part of the story is true ... and you were, in fact, one of those session musicians playing on the track ... that DOESN'T make you a Cavalier (or imply any right to the name, short of purchasing it outright) any more than it makes Carol Kaye a Beach Boy!  (Nor do I think that she'd have much success trying to get hired to perform as one! ... although by comparison, Carol played on at least a DOZEN Beach Boys hits ... and has earned a fair amount of recognition since then as a bonafide member of The Wrecking Crew ... despite her complete disassociation with that name.)  If you played on The Cavaliers' hit recording of "Last Kiss" as a session musician then I'd agree, you had some association with the Cavaliers ... but that doesn't mean that you WERE one.  Hal Blaine wasn't a Monkee ... or a Byrd ... or a member of The Partridge Family ... or a Mama or a Papa ... he was simply a hired hand paid to do those sessions.  And, if you were a session, on-staff musician for Josie Records, surely you must have SOME documentation of this ... the problem is, you offer NO facts to back up this statement ... in fact, you don't even tell us WHAT you played on the record.  Nothing in your correspondence indicates anything about the instrument(s) you played ... or who you filled in for for The Cavaliers (if only three of them were there for the session.)  Surely as a Josie Records staff session musician you must have played on countless OTHER tracks for the label, right?  What are they?  And do you claim to be a participating member of those bands, too???

#2 - Regarding the rights to currently use the name, you are again stating that you legally purchased these (and again, this is a believable claim ... rights like these are bought and sold all the time) ... but again you're offering no proof supporting this statement ... no documentation of any kind.  While I understand that you have no obligation to show these to "any fill-in musician" that happens to come along, I would think that since you approached me about setting the record straight once and for all ... and establishing your credibility in the annals of rock history such as they may be ... you would want to show SOMETHING here in our forum as an effort to help support this claim ... to put this to bed once and for all and establish his credibility ... but you didn't ... just words stating that these rights belong to you.  And, quite honestly, owning the rights to the name TODAY means precious little as to who performed on the hit record.  And while you angrily refer to Arnie Karr as a "fill-in musician", this seems to be a bit inaccurate as well ... Arnie played with The Cavaliers for ten years!  That's hardly a "fill-in" role.  Misrepresenting this association makes any other "facts" somewhat suspect, too.  If you want to clear your conscious and let the world know that you own these rights, this was the perfect opportunity for you to do so ... don't forget, it was YOU who approached ME, not the other way around ... yet you still chose NOT to do so ... again making these rights somewhat suspect.  As previously stated, however, that's really not the issue here ... we don't care about who's been in The Cavaliers since the early '80's ... YOUR claim has been that you were involved on the original hit recording of "Last Kiss" that topped the charts in 1964.  Let's face it ... there have probably been literally HUNDREDS of Cavaliers since then!  Technically, any one of them willing to come up with the money could have purchased the rights to the name had they chosen to do so ... and my guess is that each and every one of them would have come under the same scrutiny if making connections to the 1964 recording today.  (To this day, Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman, the two most recognizable names ever associated with The Guess Who, legally can't perform as The Guess Who because drummer Garry Peterson bought the rights to the name ... and, of course, whenever anybody thinks of The Guess Who, it's Garry's name that first comes to mind, right?)

But most importantly, #3 is the fact that Leo writes "You know it really don’t make a difference who was there or not.  I spoke to Sid Holmes a lot of times about this and he agrees with me."  This to me is the telling tale.  In the broad scheme of things, Leo's right ... it really doesn't matter to 99.5% of society who played on "Last Kiss" ... odds are anybody wading through our long-winded article will have already forgotten the players' names by the time they reach the end of it anyway ... because these aren't "name" players who have come up very often over the course of rock and roll history.  What matters here is falsely claiming to have been part of something when you weren't ... that's the REAL issue here.  Over the past thirteen years of doing Forgotten Hits, we've run across numerous pretenders ... some of whom I truly believe have convinced themselves over time that they really DID do this or that, simply because they had told the story so many time it became imbedded in their own reality.  We've squashed several of these myths during that time.  It's a shame that some folks out there feel the need to fabricate their own history ... ironic, too, that it's Leo who is accusing Arnie of wanting to make himself "feel important" ... because quite honestly, there seems to be a little bit of that going on here, too.

I go back to my previous bottom line ... show me some proof and I'll print it.  I'll go to bat for you and address all the naysayers out there and let them know that Leo Lucas is EXACTLY who he says he is.  But quite honestly, the very fact that you would say "it really doesn't matter who played on it or not" pretty much seals my opinion as to your claim.  Sorry, Leo ... I need more.  And while I believe you're sincere when you say that all that really matters is the music ... that it's all good "as long as we keep Frank's name alive", let's face it ... your livelihood depends on that ... and we all need to make a buck.  (kk)


THIS JUST IN:  A little extended research just found this quote from Sid Holmes, registered on a website discussing bogus rock and roll groups cashing in on the fans' love of this music.  It dates back to April 21st of 2008 ... and the crux of the discussion that day was the new "Truth In Music" laws that Jon "Bowzer" Bauman has been pushing from state to state to try and eliminate these phonies once and for all.
Whereas Leo states in his letter to me "You know it really don’t make a difference who was there or not.  I spoke to Sid Holmes a lot of times about this and he agrees with me. As long as we keep Frank’s name alive and the Cavaliers going, that’s all that matters.", Holmes voiced a decidedly DIFFERENT opinion in his post to this site:

Leo Lucas is an imposter having absolutely nothing to do with J. Frank Wilson, Last Kiss or The Cavaliers. He does not own any Cav trademark. Go to www.westexmusichof.com then the Honor Roll then J. Frank then click on The Cavaliers (it's underlined) for the complete history of The Cav's. Since NY passed the Truth in Music law this guy is going to go down.  
-- Sid Holmes

And one more word from Arnie Karr after I questioned what musical instrument it is that Leo Lucas may have played on his J. Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers recording session ... I mean if he was on staff in the recording studio for Josie Records at the time ... and making records for the label ... he must be pretty damn proficient on at least ONE instrument, right???  In order to hold down that gig???

Perhaps he's kept a secret from me all these years, but I am not aware of Leo Lucas ever playing any musical instrument. As far as I can tell, this is all fiction that he's trying to put over on you, like he used to with the audiences for whom we performed.  He sang some leads and did background vocals (mostly baritone and none very good). And I'm not aware of him ever having a relationship with Josie Records.  Maybe he and the group did -- as a group that was signed and being kept on hold if the right project or song came along -- but I'm not aware of it and, like so many of the inflated claims Leo makes, I've never seen anything to substantiate it.  Remember -- I'm a journalist and, like you, I take the burden of reporting the truth, to the best of our ability to find it, very seriously ... and so far, in regards to proof of any involvement with J. Frank Wilson ... with Josie Records ... with the original recording of Last Kiss ... I've found nothing.  Nada.  Zero. Zilch.

Arnie

The Most Accurate Truth: LAST KISS

re:  WE GET MAIL:  

Sometimes it's good ...  

Hi,

I am Bill Mack's daughter, Kim Davis. Your blog brought tears of joy and sadness. I miss him so much! Thank you for your kind words! I just wish that he would have been included into the rock and roll hall of fame. It breaks my heart. Again, thank you.

Kim Davis 

Sometimes it's NOT so good ... 

Hi,

My name is Leo Lucas I am the trademark owner of the Cavaliers.

You know you have a great service to share with our oldie people. The only problem is that I don't think you check on the people that give you information on groups. The article I'm talking about is the one on myself saying that I am one of the Texas Cavaliers.  The person that gave you information on my group was only a fill in keyboard player that plays in bar bands and never was a music arranger for the Cavaliers. His name was Arnie Karr and he still plays for bar band groups. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with what he does ... but there is something wrong in giving out bad and fake info.
Let me tell you about my Cavaliers and my tie with the song Last Kiss.

We worked for Josie Music as a back up band, both vocally and instrumentally. We were in the studio in New York when Frank came LATE to re-record Last Kiss. We backed him.  That's all there is with this whole thing. We kept the name of Wilson going for all these years since 1986. I trademarked the name the first time in 1990 and I still own it.  I spoke to Wilson many times when he was alive. When the record was released I was in Viet Nam fighting for our country. Not hiding like Mr. Arnie was. Maybe you can understand the frustration I have in reading something like your article. Arnie knows better. He even brought my friend Vito Balsamo into his garbage. He doesn't know the true story of anything.  To let you know, I never took anything away from Frank Wilson. He had a lot of problems and he did what he had to do.  I've been in touch with Sid Holmes many times. He is a true gentlemen and I enjoy speaking with him.  My group is still carrying on the name and our music.  Please don't take info from people like Arnie Karr. He is the fake here.  You have a great page and do a great service for us keep it up.  

Yours Truly, 

Leo Lucas / The Cavaliers   

Hi Leo!

I got your email and your points are well taken ... over the years we have received COUNTLESS responses to our series on the history of "Last Kiss" ... and nearly every single one has praised it as being the most accurate accounting of the events around the mysterious group The Cavaliers.  A few people related to members of the band have thanked us for FINALLY telling the whole story.   

If you read the whole article, you'll see the debate addressed about whether or not Wayne Cochran wrote the song or not ... and my stance has always been that unless somebody can prove otherwise, we're going with the documented version of the story.  (Repeated efforts to contact Cochran to talk about this went unanswered ... but no documented proof indicating otherwise was ever received so we're going with the story as it has always been told.)

Unfortunately, I have to take the same approach with your claims ... nothing that we came across during any of our research indicates that you were a member of The Cavaliers at the time "Last Kiss" was recorded ... if you can offer documented proof otherwise, I'll be happy to run it ... the fact that you NOW own the name means nothing to me ... our article was about "back then".

The original article (run as part of our emailed newsletter back in 2002, I believe) took MONTHS of research due to all the conflicting information floating around about the members of the band.  Then, over the next two or three years, the series was updated numerous times because new names kept popping into the picture.  The only thing that's certain is that YOUR name wasn't one of them!!!  So again, if you can offer CONCRETE proof that you were, in fact, involved with this original recording, I'll be happy to run it.  But NONE of the documentation or photographs we reviewed pertaining to the time of this recording indicate that Leo Lucas was part of the original "Last Kiss" Cavaliers.

Truth is, I finally gave up trying to nail down with 100% certainty the members of the band ... SO many people have come forward over the past 48 years claiming to have been part of the band at the time that I actually lost track ... I literally had to start a "scorecard" to keep track of them all!!!

I finally just let it go as this, which is exactly how it currently appears on the website:

"This four-piece band (which apparently really had about THIRTY-FIVE members, all of whom now claim to have been involved with the original recording) went into RON NEWDOLL's recording studio to cut a new version of LAST KISS. (As near as we can determine, the ACTUAL participants on that recording were J. FRANK WILSON, LEWIS ELLIOTT, ROLAND ATKINSON, GENE "BUDDY" CROYLE, JIM WYNNE, sitting in on piano,and GWEN COLEMAN (the only one of three scheduled background female vocalists who actually showed up for the session ... and, in some cases, referred to as ATKINSON's ex-wife!)"

And that's the way it'll stand until somebody can prove otherwise.

As to the character of Arnie Karr, I can only say that I've know Arnie for about 12 of 13 years, or as long as I've been doing Forgotten Hits.  (I haven't talked to Arnie in AT LEAST six or seven years now ... in fact, I don't even know if he still reads Forgotten Hits anymore.  He's no longer on our mailing list for our alerts.)  However, if I'm not mistaken, he ALSO questioned your legitimate link to the original Cavaliers numerous times during your relationship with him and, from what I understand, you were never able to produce any documentation that would convince him otherwise ... so while I appreciate your letter and the directness of it all, you're not giving me anything here to make me change my position.  If you're able to do so, please let me know ... as Forgotten Hits has ALWAYS prided itself on presenting "the most accurate truth" about every subject we cover.  But hundreds of hours of research has taken me to where we are today regarding the true story behind "Last Kiss" ... so unless you can prove or convince me otherwise, I'm going to let the story stand "as is".

From Arnie Karr's comments, circa 2002:

I'm reasonably convinced that Leo Lucas, the leader of the Cavaliers, had absolutely nothing to do with the recording of "Last Kiss" and was not a part of any singing group that toured with J. Frank Wilson. (Listening to the tune, it's obviously a very spare musical combo, J. Frank and some chick with a very high falsetto.) Even though I've worked with him for 5 years, Leo Lucas has always said that he WAS part of the group, but he's never offered any proof. Similarly, he's never offered any proof that he has a legal right to the Cavaliers name or the "official" name of the group, J. Frank Wilson's Cavaliers. Of course, people buy and sell names all the time, and I've performed, for instance, with The Shangri-Las that include no original members.
The plot thickens. Earlier this year, the brother of J. Frank Wilson contacted Leo to ask about what right Leo had to use the name "J. Frank Wilson's Cavaliers." Leo assured him that he'd negotiated directly with J. Frank and had the paperwork to establish his ownership. The brother was reassured when Leo said he'd send him all the relevant paperwork. Apparently, the paperwork was never received. Tonight, I heard from the group's bass player that he'd heard that the brother went public with this tale of deceit in Rolling Stone magazine... apparently the issue before the current one. The bassist hadn't seen it and wasn't sure whether it was an editorial or an advertisement. I was unable to find it on the Rolling Stone web site or via any search engines. (I'll check Nexis at work tomorrow.) If you've seen this item by any chance, please let me know. If not, I wanted you to be on the lookout for it and also have this record of the bizarre world of doowop and oldies bands.

For the record, neither Arnie nor I ever found a copy of this article that supposedly ran in "Rolling Stone" ... so I don't know if it ever did or if they just dropped it, too ... probably because it was just too damn confusing to sort out! Interestingly enough, however, shortly after our piece first ran, The Cavaliers dropped their name and began performing as "The Golden Group Memories" ... now I wonder why THAT is!!!  (Maybe the early efforts of Jon "Bowzer" Bauman's "Truth In Music Act" had a little something to do with it, too!)

Last we heard, J. Frank Wilson's brother decided to let it go and Leo Lucas has been using the name freely ever since.  Perhaps he DOES have the legal right to the name ... based on all that he has said above, I have no reason to doubt that he purchased that right to use The Cavaliers name as his own ... but this does NOT give him the right to rewrite history in the process.  NOTHING we came across in our hundreds of hours of research ever indicated that Lucas was a member of The Cavaliers when "Last Kiss" was first recorded (and became a #1 Hit for J. Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers.)  Certainly he must have SOME record of proof on the momentous occasion, right???  Then let's see it!!!  (kk)
 
For our complete piece on "Last Kiss", click here:

Click here: Forgotten Hits - LAST KISS: The Incredible, Convaluted Story Behind This #1 Classic Hit!

From our original article:

Other CAVALIERS mentioned during the course of our research for this series were PHIL TRUNZO, JERRY GRAHAM, BOBBY WOODS, JOHNNY HUNTER, GRADY CLARK, JOHN MAYBERRY, MIKE HODGES, RAY SMITH, BOB ZELLER, CHARLES USERY, CALVIN BELL, RON MILLER, BILLY WOOTEN, JIMMY WHEELER, all of the surviving MUNCHKINS from the THE WIZARD OF OZ film and the ENTIRE DALLAS COWBOYS Football Team, 1962-1968! And this doesn't include the LEO LUCAS / ARNIE KARR version of the band performing in 2002 when this article first appeared in Forgotten Hits!  Which begs the question ... How many other FH list members ALSO played on this record???  (kk) 

By the way, we're not done here ... we've already received brand new comments from both Arnie Karr and Leo Lucas on this topic ... so stay tuned to Forgotten Hits for more dirt and low-down on this classic #1 Hit! 

From Sirs ... With Love

Tomorrow night on a very special edition of 20 / 20 , "The Sirs" perform for Queen Elizabeth at Buckingham Palace in celebration of her 60th year on the throne.  The program kicks off at 8 PM Central Time on ABC and will feature Sirs Paul McCartney, Elton John, Tom Jones and Cliff Richard, all knighted by The Queen for outstanding service in their field ... which just happens to be Rock And Roll Music! (Rock and Roll certainly has come a long way, hasn't it???  As discussed here the other day, it's the longest lasting musical art form ... and tomorrow night these four well-known, recognized musicians will be performing material fit for a Queen.  Elizabeth took the throne in 1952 ... at 86, she's now been The Queen of England longer than I've been alive!!!  Amazing!
(OMG ... you don't think The Queen Mother will be throwing her panties up on stage when Sir Tom Jones performs, do you?!?!?)
Look for appearances by several "surprise guests" throughout the performance, too.  (Several names are being mentioned ... let's see who really shows up to kick it for The Queen!)
Sounds like a great night of musical entertainment ... don't miss it!  (kk)