All of our discussion about Year End Charts has brought some new comments and theories ...
>>>Perhaps the worst extreme was in 1965, when Billboard Magazine named Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs’ hit “Wooly Bully” the #1 Song of the Year (kk)
This had other ramifications, too. The
song was nominated for a Grammy! I doubt such a thing would have happened
had it been #2 for the year. Of course, the song that won that category
was "Flowers on the Wall," so ...
Clark Besch
Regarding "Wooly Bully" ... it was a
SPECIAL record by far. It was the kind of sound that made EVERYONE get up
and dance to it (even people who didn't like to dance!). Went to many parties
and "Wooly Bully" was always the life of the party!!!
Keep Rockin'
Carolyn
There are certain songs
like that (and 1965 was a good year for them … “Hang On Sloopy” immediately
comes to mind … and “can’t sit still” records like “Satisfaction,” ”Treat Her
Right” by Roy Head, “Shotgun,” “Keep On Dancing,” “For Your Love” and “She’s
About A Mover’ would also qualify … and they’re all from the same year. (kk)
A
few observations regarding a closer look at year end chart hit lists:
It
seems local stations, for the most part, did zero analysis or research to
tabulate their year end chart lists. I can cite a perfect example of this for
my local Top 40 station, WAVZ in New Haven.
Based
upon the few airchecks I have or have heard for the time period, WAVZ did their
own tabulations. They did not entice listener input (on-air spots to
'vote for your faves', etc.)
Let's
take a look at questionable "Year End" tallies, shall we?
1967
has the Doors "Light My Fire" as the WAVZ #1 song for the year.
12 total weeks on the weekly top 60 survey, 2 weeks at #1.
Frankie Valli’s "Can't Take My Eyes Of You" is #2 for the year.
13 weeks on the survey but 4 weeks at #1. It also had a higher "top
chart" weekly performance run than "Light My Fire" did.
"Can't Take My Eyes Off You" #58 (debut) - 40 - 24 - 14 - 9 - 6 - 3 -
2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 21 (13 weeks)
"Light My Fire" #58 (debut) - 43 - 28 - 18 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 1 - 1 - 9 -
17 - 28 (12 weeks)
Frankie
Valli's monster held the #1 slot for 4 weeks, the longest run for '67.
Going
by week to week performance, all of these songs should be rated higher than the
Doors hit, as they all held the #1 slot for 3 weeks:
Aaron
Neville - "Tell It Like It Is" - ('66 release first hit #1 for January
1st-7th)
The
Box Box Tops - "The Letter"
The Supremes
- "Love Is Here and Now Your Gone"
On
the year-end chart top 100, Aaron Neville is #10, the Box Tops #9 and the
Supremes #58 (!!!) Contrast with
"The Happening,” which was #1 for one week yet #22 for the year!).
Even more absurd, the Happenings’ "I Got Rhythm" is ranked #7 for the
year, but it only peaked at #3 for one week.
AND a song that reached #1 for one week in June did not even make the year end
Top 100 - the Temptations’ "All I Need."
More
listing gaffs like these are repeated in each WAVZ year end survey (1968, the
Dells’ hit #1 in March with "There Is," yet it didn't make the year
end Top 100 survey; "Stay In My Corner" did, however, and that song
peaked out at #3 for one week.) These
absurdities lead me to discern that these Top 100 year-end surveys were drawn
up after hours in a nearby saloon on a bunch of napkins by inebriated on-air
talent and management.
As
for the national year-end charts for Billboard, Cashbox, etc., I find serious
logic flaws with all of the discussed methodologies. Namely, these
methodologies imply that moving from #10 to #7 is just as difficult as #80 to
#77 on the Billboard Top 100. My refute - Points awarded should be
calculated noting that a song's upward movement on the chart is FAR MORE
DIFFICULT the higher up on the chart it moves. Such "points" should
reflect this logic. Billboard notes this, by awarding a "star" via
significant upward movement. A song can earn a star by only moving up one,
two or three places within the Top 20. Further down the weekly Hot 100, a
song has to move many more positions, as the Billboard Chart star award claim
purports as "Significant Upward Movement."
I've
mentioned this before but there is an excellent study of year end chart ranking
methodologies written and published by William Carroll several years ago. The methodologies, and the resultant flaws of
Whitburn, Isabell, Herbascher and my go-to faves for truly accurate year end
rankings, Quirin & Cohen, are scrutinized, examined and contrasted to
Carroll's own findings.
Highly
recommended for chart geeks!
Mike
Markesich
Bill Carroll’s books
are beyond reproach … they implement a very scientific method for determining
these factors (which is WAY over my head!!!) but your point is well noted … a
record moving up within The Top Ten has a very limited range within to
move. (I guess I’ve take a more simple
approach to this … short of hitting #1 or #2 … and possibly #3, a Top Ten
Record is a Top Ten Record … once you’ve hit Top Ten status, does it really
matter if it peaked at #7 or #8? Top Ten
status seems to be honor enough … at least in my book … although I find that I
WILL point out something special like “The Buckinghams had FOUR Top Five
Records in 1967 … so maybe Top 5 should have its own distinction as well … if
only because it designates the upper half of The Top Ten.)
That’s the thing about
all this stuff … you can debate it forever.
That’s why SOME sort of methodology has to exist as a determining factor. (For me, the biggest #1 Hits of 1967 were
“I’m A Believer” and “The Letter” … on most of the charts I’ve seen, these two
records held the top spot for about seven weeks … yet Billboard picked Lulu’s
“To Sir, With Love” as their #1 Hit of the Year … and Joel Whitburn took all of
“I’m A Believer”’s points and rolled them back to 1966 because it peaked at #1
on the chart dated 12/31/66, meaning it only spent ONE of its seven weeks at #1
that year!) It just gets frustrating …
and there is no easy answer … which is why chartaholics like us have such a
great time debating all of this stuff!
(lol)
Check out Bill’s books on Amazon (Ranking the 70’s, Ranking the 80’s, Ranking
the Albums, Ranking the Rock Writers) … they belong in every serious music
fan’s library. (kk)
HERE IN CHICAGO: “Light My Fire” never even made it to #1. Neither did “All You Need Is Love.” That’s because our local heroes The Cryan’
Shames occupied the top spot on both the WLS and the WCFL charts for four
straight weeks with their summer ballad “It Could Be We’re In Love,” one of the
biggest songs of the year here in ’67 … and yet on their year-end chart it
placed at #42 … well behind “Light My Fire” (#17), which made absolutely NO
sense based on the actual charts they were publishing at the time. (Their #1 Record for the year was “Ode To
Billie Joe” by Bobbie Gentry, a four week #1, that placed ahead of “The Letter”
and “I’m A Believer,” both of which spent seven weeks on top of the chart. So again, no real rhyme or reason to the methodology
… but it SURE was fun listening to the Year-End Countdown on New Year’s Eve to
see where your favorites were going to finish!
(I mean, who doesn’t love a good countdown?!?!!) kk
FOR THE RECORD: Despite its four week run at the top of the
WLS and WCFL charts … two Powerhouse AM Giants at the time … “It Could Be We’re
In Love” only managed a meager #85 showing in Billboard … a disappointing and
hard to believe status when one considers that at the same time it got as high
as #52 in Record World and #70 in Cash Box.
That’s a spread of over thirty places between one national trade publication high and
another … again raising credibility issues about this data when you have this wide
a range of chart discrepancies. (kk)
Howdy, Kent:
About Satisfaction vs. Wooly Bully in the 1965
year-end ratings ...
Many years ago, I devised a points system for
the TOP 50 on the BILLBOARD Charts. I had to REALLY play around with it
to get "Satisfaction" ahead of "Wooly Bully" for the Biggest
Hits of 1965 list. Using a system of 50 points for #1, and 1 point for
#50 put "Wooly Bully" at #1 for the year. I eventually settled
on a sliding scale for point positions. (As an afterthought, I'll mention that
I did NOT ever give a song full points for a chart run if some of its weeks on
the charts were in a different year.)
By the way, I will be running game #24 of
songs from your TOP 3,333 list next Wednesday (January 19th.) Several more will be run in subsequent
months. (I only use a given theme about once every five to six weeks.)
You no longer need to be on AOL to play our chat rooms games. I am happy
to provide you or anyone else with a "how to find us" message if
anyone's interested.
Brad
I think you have to
have a sliding scale of some sort in order to accurately rank these
records. And I believe bonus points
should also come into play for specific chart achievements … #1, Top Ten, Top
40, and total weeks charted. (Some even
give extra points for #2 and #3.) This
works fine for any year-end charts.
What I have found to be
a better indicator when comparing how big a hit a specific record was when
compared to other hits of other eras (like today, when a record can stay on the
charts for a year and a half!), is to go with a Hit Index. (We have discussed this before.) This method still allows you to compile
points as described above … but then those total points are divided by the
total number of weeks spent on the chart in order to achieve a Hit Index
(carried out to 2 or 3 decimal points in order to creat tie-breakers.)
This allows you to more accurately compare a song from 1956 to a song
from 1966 to a song from 2016. (The only
downside to this method is a “flash-in-the-pan” hit like “They’re Coming To
Take Me Away, Ha-Haa!,” which raced up the chart all the way to #1 and then
disappeared after just six or seven weeks once the novelty of hearing it had
worn off, becomes one of the biggest hit singles ever. It gives it a much bigger hit index than it
deserves … but it ALSO shows you just how massively popular it was for that
brief moment in time.)
Cool that our list is
still inspiring trivia games!!! (Who’da
thought!!!) If anybody wants to get in
on the action, drop me a line and I’ll pass your info on to Brad, who will
contact you directly as to how to set things us. (Hey, I just might play next week, too!) kk
Coincidently, Best Classic Bands ran a piece the other day about Nine Classic Rock Classics that were afforded very little hit status and airplay at the time of their initial release. (I would beg to argue with a couple of these … I mean a couple of these weren’t ever even released as singles … but their heart is in the right place.)
How did they end up on YOUR list of TOP 3333
MOST-ESSENTIAL CLASSIC ROCK SONGS OF ALL TIME??? (Well, you know, hindsight’s 20/20 … and
today, there’s rarely a day that goes by that you don’t hear some of
these!!! (kk)
9
Signature Rock Classics That Weren’t U.S. Chart Hits | Best Classic Bands
BLOWIN’ IN THE WIND – Bob Dylan (#1267)
COMFORTABLY NUMB – Pink Floyd (#77)
HOT FOR TEACHER – Van Halen (#458)
MR. BLUE SKY – Electric Light Orchestra (#332)
PRIDE (IN THE NAME OF LOVE) – U2 (#394)
SCENES FROM AN ITALIAN RESTAURANT – Billy Joel (#1778)
SURRENDER – Cheap Trick (#354)
UNDER PRESSURE – Queen and David Bowie (#78)
YOUNG AMERICANS – David Bowie (#324)
See the full list here: CLASSIC ROCK ESSENTIALS
Hi Kent:
In case you want it, here is WRIT’s
Top 100 hits of 1971 in Milwaukee. Again, not exactly accurate according to the
surveys, but how they played it on New Year’s Eve.
Ken
>>>I've been compiling a register of songs from the 50s and 60s that were hits or almost hits in some significant regional area of the U.S. and/or Canada, based upon radio station surveys for many years. There are well over 8,000 song listings along with supporting data, a few of which showed up in your Rewound analysis.
I've been retired from radio
for 15 years after having last worked for Sirius Satellite Radio (pre-merger)
for just over the first four years of its existence, primarily on the 50s,
60s and 70s channels. With You Tube,
it's possible to listen to almost all of these compilation songs, which could
be a fun exercise in and of itself. (Bob
Thomas)
I've
known Bob Thomas for decades and his regional hits project is fascinating and
in many ways amazing.
And ...
it only includes local/regional market hits that did not reach the Billboard Top
40. I can't imagine what it would reveal
if the cutoff position were 50 or higher.
Cheers,
Ed Osborne
This is interesting ...
From Tom Cuddy …
OLDIES ARE RULING
Friedman is right … 20 songs on the list of Top 100
Downloads are at least 20 years old or older … charting right alongside the biggest
hits of the day … Listeners are LOVIN’ ... and downloading ... the oldies …
#97 – Spirit In The Sky – Norman Greenbaum (1970)
#94 – Right Down The Line – Gerry Rafferty (1978)
#79 – The Boys Of Summer – Don Henley (1984)
#75 – Bad Moon Rising – Creedence Clearwater Revival (1969)
#74 – Losing My Religion – R.E.M. (1991)
#71 – Fortunate Son – Creedence Clearwater Revival (1970)
#60 – Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes – Edison Lighthouse
(1970)
#52 – Be My Baby – The Ronettes (1963)
#45 – Mr. Jones – Counting Crows (1993)
#42 – Wonderful Tonight – Eric Clapton (1977)
#41 – How You Remind Me – Nickelback (2001)
#39 – Zombie – The Cranberries (1999)
#35 – Livin’ On A Prayer – Bon Jovi (1986)
#32 – Tubthumping – Chumba Wumba (1997)
#28 – All The Small Things – Blink 182 (1999)
#24 – Island In The Sun – Weezer (2001)
#19 – What’s Up – 4 Non Blondes (1992)
#16 – Have You Ever Seen The Rain? – Creedence Clearwater
Revival (1970)
#14 – Here Without You – Three Doors Down (2002)
#8 – Kryptonite –
Three Doors Down (1999)
The fact that CCR occupy three spots on the chart is
incredible! (That means that John
Fogerty’s still rakin’ in the cash … so he’s seen another kind of rain, making
him a Fortunate Son indeed!!!)
The Ronettes makes sense, of course, for THIS week … but
Edison Lighthouse??? “Wonderful Tonight” by Clapton (over something like
“Layla” or “I Shot The Sheriff” or “After Midnight” or “Cocaine”?!?!) Then
again, after “Layla,” it was his top pick on our TOP 3333 MOST ESSENTIAL
CLASSIC ROCK SONGS OF ALL TIME List, too!
The Creedence songs ranked #42 – Fortunate Son; #92 – Have
You Ever Seen The Rain and #111 – Bad Moon Rising. Missing in action was our #39 song, “Who’ll
Stop The Rain.”
Cool to think that so many of OUR favorites are also favorites of today’s generation! (kk)
