What Is An Oldie? (Part 9)

Hi Kent -

As a broadcaster on Live 365 I'll be keeping a close eye on what FH readers consider an Oldie, and furthermore the music they really want to hear. Being on the other side of the fence so to speak I've always been happy to play requests, but it's not that easy to update playlists regularly and hold down a full time job at the same time. I've attached a copy of my current playlist which has 240 songs, though only around 20 of these are actual requests received in the last week or so.

As you can see some of the songs featured on FH are already included, but it would be interesting to see how many of them are actually played on US Oldies stations as very few are played here in the UK anymore.

Nicky's Oldies

Click here: Playlist March 10.docx - Microsoft Word Web App
Nice to see so many of our Forgotten Hits titles on this list ... and even nicer to know that we're helping to change the way radio is being programmed today. (We've got some good ideas here ... if just a few jocks on the list will give it a shot and listen to their audience instead of their consultants, we just MIGHT change radio forever!!!) kk


And, I'll tell you what ... radio IS listening to what we have had to say on this subject ... many of our readers (which include a number of deejays) have commented about how they can't wait to see what others have to say on this topic ... little by little we may just help to define the whole oldies concept ... and once we do, EVERYBODY WINS!!! Radio is better ... the listeners listen and enjoy it more ... the mind-grinding repetition tapers off (which pleases the listeners) ... and the deejays are happy because they get to play a greater variety of music ... so EVERYBODY WINS!!! (kk)


>>>Are songs that belong on the oldies channels more "artist" dictated? Two immediate examples that come to mind are "Kokomo" by The Beach Boys and "You Got It" by Roy Orbison, both late '80's tracks that found an immediate home on the oldies stations. Is it because both of these artists are held in such high regard in the oldies community? Is it because these songs seem to fit in with the style normally associated with these artists? (kk)

Although I was born in 1978, I would like an oldies station that mixes in a lot the country crossovers, one hit wonders, early rock and roll, the better known “underground AOR” radio tracks, British Invasion, MOR, R&B, etc., all on one station from about 1955 - mid 70s and nothing afterwards. I’d open a station that plays late 1970s-mid 1990s hits for the Kokomo, You Got It, etc. type of tracks.
Bradley

I think tracks like "You Got It" and "Kokomo" still fit the bill for an oldies station ... because you've got proven oldies artists still creating new music that clearly has caught the ear of the masses. But here's the part I don't get in all of this ... "You Got It" features Orbison's fellow Traveling Wilburys Jeff Lynne (ELO) and Tom Petty ... and certainly his OTHER Wilburys bandmates (George Harrison and Bob Dylan) fall into the oldies staples category ... so why aren't The Traveling Wilburys featured as part of oldies programming?
(EDITOR'S NOTE: I typed this a week ago and then last week heard WLS-FM play "End Of The Line" by The Traveling Wilburys ... that record came out in 1989!!! Jeez!!! What have I done?!?!?)
Or, better yet, why will oldies radio play a wide selection of tunes by ELO, Roy Orbison, George Harrison and Bob Dylan ... but completely ignore the music of Tom Petty? For some reason, Tom Petty ... a Wilbury ... doesn't fit the oldies format.
By the same token, who better than oldies radio to let fans of this music know what their favorite artists are up to these days? Why not play something off the "brand new Paul McCartney album" or "the brand new Paul Simon album"? Where ELSE is this music going to fall in the mix of things? What about James Taylor? Eric Clapton? Many of these artists are regularly singled out for Grammy consideration yet the radio format that has the most likely built-in audience for this music ignores their new stuff. And what about artists like Elton John and Billy Joel and Rod Stewart and Barry Manilow and so many more that have provided decades of hits? Should nothing by Elton John post-1980 be played on the oldies station? Or is the fact that it IS Elton John ... an accepted oldies artist ... enough to play even his most recent release?
Tommy James has recorded some GREAT new music over the past few years that holds its own with some of his biggest and best known hits ... yet NOBODY is playing this stuff on the radio. SO many of these great acts from the '60's and '70's continue to release brand new music ... not just rehashing their old hits ... on a regular basis ... yet nobody dedicated to the oldies community is doing their part to let the fans know about it ... or give them a listen once in a while.


Kent,
I generally go by anything ten years or older qualifying as an oldie, no ifs ands or buts.
I do listen to what others have to say on this subject, as it is a highly speculative area, and not all people will agree on one idea.

As for songs and artists like The Beach Boys and Roy Orbison ending up in the oldies category quickly even though they released new songs, you are correct in stating it's because of the type and style of music they're associated with, plus there seems to be a bias against older artists in the radio community releasing new music. It would seem that most PDs consider their music passe and not fit for today's Top 40 markets.
Oldies are songs that take a person to a time and place when a point in their lives were simpler and they had many good times and feelings associated with those songs.
Happy Days!
Don


Oldie? At least Pre-Disco! Most of the stuff after that doesn’t matter to me. Exception being the Punk stuff from late 70’s and some of it’s spinoffs. Most of that wasn’t US hits anyway. Mainly because the US was buying some real mediocrity and crap for the most part.

Just an informed man’s opinion.
Ken


LOVE THE SEVENTIES THE MOST. SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES. FIFTIES MAY BE A LITTLE TOO OLDIE. I AM 55.

STEVEN PETH

Kent ...

You asked for our definition of an "Oldie". I think a person's age has a lot to do with answering this question.
Here's how I see it:
1940 's ="Old Standard " - (Pre war, During the war, After the war)
1950 to Early 1960's (Before the Beatles and the British Invasion) ="Oldie"
1964 and later years = "Old Song"
Highest rating and best music is what I call an "Oldie"
Sometimes an "Old Standard" becomes an "Oldie".
For Example = "Till Then" (Mills Brothers to The Classics); "Lazy River" (Mills Brothers to Bobby Darin); "If I Didn't Care" (Ink Spots to The Platters); "That's My Desire " (Frankie Laine to Earl Lewis & The Channels)
I'm sure you can think of many more.
Hey Kent, that's not a bad idea for a show. First you play the "Old Standard" followed by the "Oldie" version of the same song. What do you think ? Check it out with all your contacts.
Frank B.
Actually, Scott Shannon's been doing his "Rock And Roll Remakes Weekends" for quite a few years now ... and it's one of the most popular features on The True Oldies Channel. (See, Frank, you have to turn off WCBS-FM once in a while and check out The True Oldies Channel, too!) But he certainly could go back a little deeper I suppose. Biggest problem with this concept is that the rock and roll "hit" version doesn't get played on the radio anymore ... so nobody's going to recognize EITHER version of these tunes!!! Radio has done an exemplary job of erasing MOST of musical history in favor of 300 "favorites" ... that we've all grown sick of!!! WTG, Radio!!! (How much do these so-called consultants make?!?!?) kk


Kent,
My first instinct is to consider something an "oldie" if it came out between 1955 and 1970. I could even say 1972. But I'm willing to make it a clean twenty years and say an oldie is a song that came out between 1955 and 1975. This takes us from "Rock Around the Clock" to "Philadelphia Freedom." 1975 marks the rise of disco and the decline of AM radio. I agree with those who say that disco was an abomination that changed the music landscape forever. I would argue that during these twenty years, and especially in the 60s, there arose a fairly universal set of music that young people listened to. It was not one style of music, because we could listen to most stations and, in a one-hour period, hear just about anything. For example, on WABC's Top 100 survey for 1966, the top ten songs were by Sgt. Barry Sadler, Supremes, Frank Sinatra, Young Rascals, Four Tops, Monkees, Association, Beatles, Byrds and Mamas & Papas. Among the top 20 were songs by Herb Alpert, Roger Williams, Rolling Stones, The Happenings, and New Vaudeville Band, and the top 100 included Troggs, Standells, Fontella Bass, Roger Miller and Statler Brothers. Wow!
To be sure, these two decades could be divided into their own periods -- from 1955 to around 1960, from 60-63, 64-70 (Beatles), and 71-75. Even those periods, of course, had their unique musical components as well as a good amount of overlap. But on most stations, we heard it all. I think that by 1975, the music landscape had become much more fragmented. In fact, by 1975 there were"oldies" stations that were exclusively playing music from the 50s and 60s.
Call the disco, big hair, synthetic pop, and other music of the 70s and 80s something else, but don't call it "oldies."

Dan Crabtree

Wheaton IL

Kent,
IMHO an "oldie" is a song performed or released by an artist or group beginning in the timeframe of Bill Haley and the Comets and concluding in proximity with the disbanding of the Beatles. Mid - 50s to the end of the 60's. Singles released by groups / performers of that era that precede or come after those years may be included.
The 70s had great music but I do not consider them "oldies" - Just because a song or single is old does not mean it is an oldie.
That's my bias and I'm sticking to it.
Phil
PrayForSurfBlog.net



I define an oldie as 1955 - 1972 [when WCBS-FM started broadcasting]. After that it is 70s, 80s and 90s ... and all are retro. Most folks think of Beatles - Beach Boys - Elvis, etc. when oldies are mentioned.
MARK
Unfortunately, that Beatles - Beach Boys- Elvis mentality really pigeonholes the oldies concept and helps to narrows the play list down as small as it is ... there was SO much more great music that came out of this era than The Beatles, The Beach Boys and Elvis. Don't get me wrong ... all three rank high amongst my all-time favorites ... but I find myself turning off songs by all three of these artists today in favor of catching one of those "Wow" songs we keep talking about. I've heard The Beatles, Beach Boys and Elvis stuff thousands and thousands of times ... right now I want to hear something fresh and unexpected ... and, judging by most of the mail WE get lately, I think more and more oldies listeners are starting to feel the same way. (kk)


We've been getting some GREAT response to this topic ... be sure to voice YOUR opinion before we wrap things up next week!


SIDE NOTE TO THE JOCKS ON THE LIST: Most of you have commented about how fascinating you're finding this series ... some have gone as far as to say that it just may be the most honest and accurate accounting ever done when it comes to polling an audience ... especially an audience that LOVES this music ... and that we have provided some incredible insight not found through your typical consulting contacts. However, MOST of you have adopted sort of a "wait and see" attitude ... more anxious to hear what OTHERS have to say on the topic first than go out on a limb and let your own true feelings be known. We're hoping that some of you will step forward and speak YOUR minds during the final week of our "What Is An Oldies?" Series ... so let's hear from you!!!


TOMORROW IN FORGOTTEN HITS: It's a brand new Sunday Comments Page ... then we'll pick up (and wrap up) our "What Is An Oldies?" Series next week ... so speak now or forever hold your peace!!!

Here's all I have to add to the "Oldies" topic:

You are limited what you can play (as a DJ) if you tag particular songs as an Oldies.

Music is music, in my mind, not Oldies and Youngies. :)

Why waste anymore valuable FH space on this topic? There are no definitive answers!!!

Best,

John

Actually, we're polling our audience ... and the audience of oldies radio across America ... we knew this would be hot topic and it has been. Some EXCELLENT opinions and insight have been shared ... and we LOVE it!!!

If you're bored, you'll probably want to tune out for another week ... because we're FAR from done with this!!! (But we WILL have a brand new Sunday Comments Page that has all kinds of goodies in it!) kk

What Is An Oldie? (Part 8)

We're still getting LOTS of great comments on this topic ... seems like we've really struck a nerve again ... if you're new to this series, just scroll back to read all that's come before ... and then voice YOUR choice on this subject by dropping us an email at forgottenhits@aol.com!!!

Hey Kent -

In response to your question about, "What is an Oldie?" ... I'm betting that you've probably opened up a hornet's nest with this topic, as probably no two people will have the same view on this subject. But, this being said, here are my thoughts on the subject:

First, let me start off by saying that in all of my years of being a music listener, record collector, historian, and compilation compiler and producer, I've NEVER liked the term, "Oldie" ... I've always felt that calling a song an oldie is really a derogatory label ... It's sort of like calling an 80 year old person an "Old Geezer". It also seems to me, that the term "Oldie" not only labels a song from the past, but also places that same label on the performers themselves who recorded those particular tunes that are considered "Oldies". I'm sure that most of the performers of the 50's, 60's and 70's that still perform today aren't crazy about being tagged as an "Oldies Artist". It places them into a category of someone who is no longer capable of creating any new music worthy of mass appeal, and thus, held captive in the time warp bubble. It's totally wrong.

The local FM "Oldies" station here in Detroit (who by the way, is completely useless now), no longer refers to themselves as being as "Oldies" station ... Even though this station still plays some (beaten into the ground) music from the 60's and 70's, they peg themselves as "Playing music from the 60's and the 70's and early 80's" ... Seems to me that because this station no longer plays music strictly from the 1960's, they no longer refer to themselves as an "Oldies" station. I'm sure that once this station drops playing any 60's music (as their so-called "demographics" will eventually tell them), then, this station will peg themselves as a "CLASSIC ROCK" station.

The bottom line is, I don't like the word "Oldie" being placed on any song or record from the past. Consider this point: I happen to own a showroom condition 1963 Ford Galaxie 500, but ... my car is referred to as a "classic car". Still, any record that I have in my record collection that came out in 1963 is referred to as an,"Oldie" ... Why is this?

Whether a record came out in 1953 or 1993, there should be a universal term that adequately reflects the historical importance of that particular recording, without making reference to it's age or musical style in a demeaning manner.

Jerry Schollenberger

And that has pretty much been the philosophy of radio programmers for the past decade or so ... every bit as much as a fear of insulting its audience as simply not even bothering to care about this particular demographic anymore ... placing so little importance on it, in fact, that they figure they can skate by playing those same 300 songs without any effort to improve their product. That's why we gave special kudos to Real Oldies and The True Oldies Channel ... Top Shelf Oldies ... and several others who EMBRACE the term with endearment ... NOT a slam to a particular generation of music fans but rather a means of HONORING this music. (That's why it is SO sad to see these stations follow suit and play '80's and '90's music now ... they have abandoned the core definition of who they are!!!) Maybe this little series will enlighten a few of them ... or at least cause them to pause in thought for a little while. (kk)

Obviously, Kent, you must be bored. FH must not be keeping you busy enough these days. I think you will have opened Pandora's Box by asking what's an oldie.

Until the advent of classic rock radio, an oldie was described as anything released over a year ago. Using that as a guide, then anything released before 2010 is an oldie and, in a way, it still is. However before the mid 80s there were oldies stations and stations that played current music, regardless of genre. Classic rock took care of LP cuts and hard rock songs that had been dropped by oldies stations leaving oldies stations to pick up the time period from 1955-73 and classic rock from 1973 to current. 1973 is just being used as arbitrary year. It's not to be mistaken for an absolute stop / start point. I just use that year as the year WXRT-FM Chicago adopted the term "Classical Rock" for it's format before changing the term to "Fine Rock". Besides it was about that time that arena rock bands took over the FM airwaves and it's that genre that dominates classic rock.

Oldies music should, but doesn't, encompass rock and roll all pop / rock songs up to the early 70s with a few exceptions like comeback hits by oldies artists such as the Beach Boys, Roy Orbison, the Everlys, etc, who all had hits in the 80s. Or songs like Crocodile Rock that fit the genre. Perhaps the problem lies with us baby boomers who think that our music is the only music that matters. Like it or not we have become our parents and grandparents who thought the world had gone to hell with the likes of Elvis and the Beatles. Avid survey collectors will tell you that well into the 70s you still saw songs by decidedly 50s pop crooners on the charts. Many in the record industry then still saw rock and roll as a passing fad almost 20 years since Bill Haley and many radio programers still felt they had to justify playing the "Devil's Music", by programing "acceptable music".

Your kids and grandkids have, or will have, their music which will become their oldies. We relate to oldies as it represents a special time(s) in our lives, whether it be grade school, high school or college. Your first girl / boy friend. That first kiss. The day you got married or had your first kid / grandkid. I could go on. Sadly oldies, as we know it, are getting old just like us. That's why you have more and more 80s songs creeping into oldies rotation. Who would of thought that disco would be considered oldies and even more amazing is that people would want to hear it on the radio. Many felt that once was more than enough.

There will come a day when your kids / grandkids will wonder, just like our parents and grandparents did, what kind of crap are you listening to? And they, like us, will find comfort in listening to the songs they grew up with.

So yes, Kent, one day Justin Beiber and Miley Cyrus will be considered oldies acts. Of course we'll be dead and that will be a burden your offspring will have to endure.

So to answer your question, oldies music represents a time in which we grew up and as each succeeding generation becomes of age, and advertisers see them as their prime consumer market, oldies radio will program music to that target audience. The only products advertisers target us for is Depends, Viagra, life insurance and life alert systems. You heard it here first, it's gonna get worse.
Jack (Rock And Roll Never Forgets, but I find I forget a lot more)

I agree with much of what you're saying. To somebody like one of my daughters who only listens to B96, for example, any song they hear that comes on from six months ago is an oldie ... that's because they play the same 20 songs over and over and over in steady, constant rotation and don't step outside the box that often. (Our Top 40 Radio back in the '60's really wasn't that different ... when the new Lady GaGa single came out a few weeks ago, B96 played it every hour on the hour ... just like Super 'CFL used to do with a brand new Beatles or Monkees single ... and, at that age, we LOVED it ... and STILL couldn't get enough.)

But I think we've proven a few things here in Forgotten Hits over the years. For example, just a few months ago, we received a HUGE wave of mail talking about how much our readers loved hearing "Susie Darlin'" by Robin Luke ... and the comment made most often was that what they enjoyed MOST about the song was the "simplicity" of the recording. No techo-stuff, no fancy effects ... just a raw, bare bones recording with a great hook. I will agree that an awful lot of the '50's and early '60's music sounds EXTREMELY dated today ... even after its been cleaned up it truly reflects back to a different era. But for those who were there to experience the first time around, this is also part of its greatest appeal. Will it capture a NEW audience? Probably not ... there are a limited number of songs that will ... and THOSE are the ones that belong in heavy rotation. But that doesn't necessarily mean eliminate the other stuff all together ... because once we do, it ceases to exist ... and it's all still part of where all this music came from. As strong as their catalog was, there are Beatles tunes that don't hold up as well today, some 40-50 years later ... but there are others that STILL blow you away, even after THOUSANDS of repeated listens ... where you just sit back and smile and think, "How could this possibly NOT have been a hit?!?!?"

So yes, two years from now some 16 year old may call a Miley Cyrus tune or a Justin Bieber tune an "oldie" ... and in THEIR mind it is ... but if "oldies" is an era ... then zero in on that specific era and GO WITH IT!!! (kk)

Hi Kent,

Today's topic really hits home with me. First off, my views are from a perspective of a 64 year old who grew up listening to WCFL and WLS back in the hey-day here in Chicago and from a person who would rush home every day after school and put on American Bandstand and listen to the hits of the late 50's and early 60's.

I have always felt that the music we like the best is the music we grew up with so to speak. I, like so many of your readers, could not get enough of the music we considered "Oldies" and I was always looking for the latest "greatest hits" albums or Oldies but Goodies collections to play as it seemed I wasn't getting what I wanted on the local radio stations. As I got older, I remember having this reel to reel tape deck and taping the "History of Rock and Roll" series in a crude but at the time fashionable way and god forbid if a Thunder storm passed through the area because you got the static that only AM radio could provide to your precious tape.

So, for a long long time, I hoped an Oldies revolution would appear and at times it did. I went to Holiday Star Theater and Poplar Creek a few times to catch some Doo-Wop shows and always caught the Beach Boys on their summer tours through the area, but it was never enough and then, like a miracle, the Computer age was upon us.

And I, like so many of your readers, found an outlet on AOL called the "Oldies Music Chatroom" and I was hooked. I found people who grew up in the same time period as I who enjoyed the same "Oldies" and I loved sharing my memories with these people and learning what it was like to actually attend an Alan Freed oldies show in New York City and so much more. I found that I wasn't alone with my past but instead part of a large group of people who had similar interests and, more important, a shared passion for "Oldies" .

Kent, you were part of that period and you, along with a few others, have kept the "Oldies" dream alive. So many of us can't thank you enough for keeping our passion alive.

So now its 2011 and it's a new generation out there and things never stay the same. So many Internet radio stations have popped up and I have even dabbled with my own show (which, by the way, is off the air now.) It consisted of hits heavy on the late 50's, early to mid 60's with some 70's thrown in, so if you are asking me what a best Oldies station would play, that would be my answer. Yes, there is a audience who love the music we grew up with but there are so many outlets today that we just didn't have 15 years ago. That's my feeling that it is almost impossible for a show that caters to a select group of people like my age group to have a giant audience. Everybody has lives and there is so much going on today with the "new media' like IPODS and YOU TUBE and 400 channels of TV, etc, etc., that we all get our music today but from different sources. I see it when I post a song from the past on YOUTUBE and see the comments and see others share my passion.

And the demographics today are different. As you said in your comments, many people today consider Oldies to be 70's or 80's or even 90's and I have thought about this for a long time and you know something? That's OK. We all have our interests and, as I said in my opening comments, the music we like the best is the music we grew up with ... and today's audience is younger. Just look at the ratings that shows like American Idol and Glee bring in.

No easy answers here but a heartfelt thanks to you and those like you who continue to keep our music alive and give somebody like me a forum to talk about my passion for oldies. As I found out when I first went in the AOL Oldies room, there are so many people who know so much more about the music I grew up with and kudos to all of us who share that passion..

A big thank you for giving me the opportunity to express my feelings on this topic, so close to my heart, and I eagerly await, as always, comments from your readers.

Mark (GoHawksGo)

I don't think ANY of the radio powers that be or consultants truly have any concept of the passion we have for this music. They shrug it off as simply a tie to our youth ... but it's SO much more than that. I think the jocks today who REALLY click SHARE that passion. Many of these can be found on the Internet ... and you're right ... there are SO many outlets for music these days, that we're not all going to find or focus on the same one ... those days are gone. That being said, I think if we could find two or three EXCEPTIONAL outlets, folks like us would flock to these and embrace them dearly. I want to hear music I enjoy in the car ... it's often a 45 minute commute each way to and from work ... and we have a "no radios" policy at work ... so that's really my ONLY chance to hear what's going on ... so for those few moments I like to escape, relax and enjoy. What I DON'T want to do is turn off "Satisfaction" or "December, 1963" or "Oh, Pretty Woman" four or five times each way on each commute! C'mon ... entertain me!!! Let's face it, I can listen to ANY music I want any time I want ... so give me something more ... give me a REASON to tune in ... and stay tuned in. Radio today just doesn't seem interested in that challenge or that kind of commitment ... which is why radio is in the sad state it's in today! (kk)

An Oldie to me is like a fine antique. I collect the ones I like and don't bother with the ones I don't. I would love to hear more doo wop and less Beatles or Rolling Stones. I liked the Beatles, hated the Rolling Stones in my day and still do, but tired of hearing them on the radio. I would like to hear more Ella Fitzgerald, Ray Peterson, Ronnie Dove, Angels, Atlantic Starr, Bobby Vee, Bobby Vinton, Brenda Lee, Chris Montez, Lesley Gore, Mel Carter, Ronny and the Daytonas, Tommy Edwards, Dion and the Belmonts and many more. There are also a lot of one time hits they just don't play anymore. I love the song "Close to Cathy" by Mike Clifford and you never hear it. Maybe you can feature it one day.

This is going to be fun to read the comments. Good idea Kent.

Carrie

Personally I like the 25 years label. It makes it simple. What I hate is that we just can't have an oldies channel that will play it all with equal amounts given to all eras. I was born in 1957 and bought The Twist by Chubby Checker the first time he released it as well as others at the time. At the same time I loved much of the British Invasion stuff, Psychedelic, Soul and Funk, and whatever other top 40 goodies passed my ears. I'm a musician in a tribute band and believe me, that vast array of listening has served me well as a singer.
Regarding "Kokomo" and You Got It, it's a bit sad to me that those tunes get picked when so many others don't. Neither are the best by far of the artist's catalogs. It still amazes me that "Kokomo" made #1. But it's certainly worthy of airplay since it's a part of that generation's life, probably if not only because of Cocktail.
As far as The British Invasion being the death of Rock & Roll, rock came back to life with the British Invasion, IMO. After Buddy Holly, etc. died in the plane crash, rock became a wash in violins and giant choruses for background singers. Thank God for the Beatles. They brought back guitars and a much more prominent beat back to rock and roll, not to mention Paul and John's vocals.
OK I'll shut up.
Bill

Thanx for asking what we'd like to hear on the radio! One more "Suspicious Minds" and / or "Kentucky Rain" or even "You Were Always On My Mind" and it may be MP3 player and my own playlist all the way. In fact, I wish DJs would never play ANY "fat clown jumpsuit" Elvis songs ever again and go back to when he started ... pre-Army, pre-Priscilla, pre-Mama dying, pre-Col. Parker ruining his career whilst chasing the almighty dollar ... and get truck drivin' roots Elvis back on the air. Anything after Blue Hawaii was a different singer ... still good ... still great voice and delivery. But early Elvis had an original interpretive style and organic vibe and deserves to be heard and appreciated so younger listeners will "get" why we fell in love with him. Was there ever anything better than Elvis jiving "You're So Square" or emoting "Lonesome Cowboy"?

Pttibg

What is an Oldie? Most people would say, the answer depends on your age. If you were born in the 50's, the British Invasion is your oldies era. Born in the 60's? Disco is your oldies era. Etc. However, I disagree with this argument. To me, the oldies are the roots of rock and roll. That, my friends, started in the 50's and pre-Elvis ... maybe even a little earlier. The amalgamation of gospel, blues, country, bop and more, brought about Rock and Roll, a term, coined by Alan Freed. While Elvis was the dominant force in bringing this genre to the fore, Bill Haley and Chuck Berry also had a big part in its rise in popularity. But its genesis is in Doo Wop and blues. Early Doo Wop pioneers laid the foundation along with the blues singers. If you are not a doo wop aficionado, you would not be aware that there were many types of doo wop. A real doo wop fan can discern the west coast doo wop from the east coast doo wop ... the Pittsburgh sound from the New York sound, etc. Out of these roots sprung rock and roll. Yet this era has been shamelessly under represented by the supposed Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. A misnomer if there ever was one.

I propose that Oldies should always be considered the 50's to early 60's ... not because it's my age era, but because it is the foundation of the music we love. I believe any serious music lover should be exposed to this music in order to appreciate what followed. The Beatles have said many times that Chuck Berry was a big influence on them. Listen to the Beach Boys and tell me you don't hear any Chuck Berry riffs. I can tell you this much, when I turn on the radio to listen to Oldies, I don't want to hear Herman's Hermits singing Silhouettes, I want to hear the Rays singing the original. I don't want to hear Jackson Browne singing Stay, I want to hear Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs singing the original version. Don't misunderstand me, I like Jackson Browne and his version of Stay, but it doesn't have the raw grit of the original. So I would have to say that everyone wants to listen to the music of their early years. Those are your memories, but they are not necessarily the old roots of rock. That's the 50's to early 60's. The true oldies of rock and roll. They need to be honored and treasured.

Bob Hughes ... Maryland

To me, an "oldie" is a song from your past that, when you listen to it, you can remember exactly where you were and what you were doing the first time you ever heard it. An "oldie" takes you back to an easier time in your life when the most important thing you had to worry about was what to wear to the dance on Friday night or whether or not, in fact, you even had a date for it. We weren't worried about the price of gas or the right of a man to hold the office of President because his birthplace was in question. We probably all knew someone who was somehow, connected to the Vietnam war, which was the catalyst for a lot of the "oldies" that we hold near and dear to our hearts today. "Oldies" make me forget about the trials and tribulations of a crazy world and take me to a happier place.

Sharon

{Tokeitwo}

What Is An Oldie? (Part 7)

Hey Kent ...
Here are my answers to your "Oldies" questions:
>>>What do YOU want to hear on your oldies station?
Music that helped to shape our lives. Music that brings back the smells and the tastes of our childhood,teen years,adulthood.
What are YOUR expectations?
To be entertained in a way that evokes a warm feeling of "being there" when it happened.
What drives you away?
Less variety ... playlists that satisfy program directors with no respect given at all to their listening public ... we love "Yesterday", but play some of the great records that never seem to get airplay anymore ... there are a lot of them.
What keeps you coming back?
The stations that I listen to ... mainly Internet stations and a few public stations ... keep me coming back because of their open mindedness and variety. They play those "deep cuts" that most of the majors tend to ignore.
What are your favorite features?
Artist features ... like a Beatles weekend, a Beach Boys weekend, a Teen Idol weekend, etc.
What would you like to hear MORE of ... less of ... c'mon, America!
More variety and more "deep cuts" ... there are so many hits ... many of them former #1's ... that NEVER get played on the Radio anymore.
That's my opinion, Kent ... thanks for bringing this topic up. It needs to be addressed.
Long live the great music!
Mitch Schecter / The Rip Chords

An "Oldie", simply put, is a song that makes you conjure up your youth and compels you to recall a specific period in your life. All people have their personal oldies list and it may not be relative to your own. For the most part, genuine oldies belong to the 50's and 60's but today's youth would relate to those as I would relate to Cab Calloway. The youth of today that can relate to our oldies list can only do so because they grew up in a house where their parents superglued the radio dial on the oldies station. 100% my humble opinion.

Alex Valdez / Yellow Balloon

>>>What are the oldies stations doing wrong? (kk)
They play remakes!!!! Like on WBCB-AM, playing Johnny Cash, "Ring Of Fire", yesterday morning - it was not the "hit" version!!!
It's easy to spot amateurs in radio - just listen what they play!!
On WRDV-FM (PA), the DJ mentioned, then played a song by "Al Martino". However, a listener had to call in and correct him ... because it was really Jerry Vale!!!
Now, maybe why the "Jack-FM" system is preferred! :-)
After listening for a bit to Hy Lit's web radio back when, it proves Sam Lit can't tell an original version from a remake!!! Maybe a bit before his time, but still!!!

They should all know better ... like Scott Shannon's "House Of Remakes"!
So few actually tell you what they are playing - the source!!! You know, what CD / LP / 45!!?? Excuse, me, or what MP3 they found!!
Best,

Jersey John

I agree that if you're going to DO an oldies show, it should be the AUTHENTIC, original versions that are featured ... and, in order to come across as believable doing it, the deejay really has to know the difference. We hear remakes slipped in from time to time ... and we recently gave Y103.9's Jeff James special kudos for actually pulling one of them off the air mid-song a few weeks back. (It was something by The Everly Brothers and evidently whatever was in the computer was a '60's remake rather than the Cadence original ... very obvious to me from the word go. Jeff even went so far as to say that this is why he brings his own vinyl to play at the station ... because you just can't trust what's in the computer these days.) During The Drive's recent "History Of Rock And Roll" special, I noticed the wrong version of Fats Domino's "Ain't That A Shame" being played, too. Unfortunately, this is just going to continue to happen more and more often ... as the label honchos get younger, most of them were not around when this music first happened ... so they don't know Take 1 from Take 34 ... and unless these tapes are properly cataloged and categorized, we're going to get more and more "false" versions out there. True, there is a market for "alternate takes" ... and clearly this is the kind of stuff you strive for in your own collection ... but I think if a deejay is going to play something other than the hit on the radio they should first preface this by saying something about it. (A few years back a CD of Elvis' #1 Hits came out ... with the wrong version of "The Wonder of You" on the disk ... as their all-time golden cash cow, wouldn't you think RCA Records would have known which track to use?!?! That goes WAY beyond embarrassing!) kk

Oldies format radio stations are largely voice-tracked, playing a repetitive unimaginative playlist.

gg

1st of all my bonifides:
In business since the fall of 1980. Worked country, AC, Top 40, Beautiful, Contempo, Drake / Chenault, light rock, Classic Cuts, and Radio Disney bubblegum.
In my day I've seen the oldies term go from everything from a sliver on the rotation clock to an honest to God format.
Traditionally, the term Oldie in my estimation is a period from the broadcast origins of rock and roll as defined by payola king Alan Freed. To the end of the 1960s.
Prior to Freed's nomenclature moment, it is the Music of Your Life, capturing everything from the big band era to rock and roll.
After the Oldies period (1970s on to perhaps the 90s) is Classic rock. This excludes light rock, and disco naturally.
Re-currents are the last 5 to 10 years and Contemporary up to 5 years.
In a world of Jack and Request Orientation Formats, I personally feel now 10 years into the 21st century we need to redefine all this. Music of the 1900s should now be called 20th Century music then broken into genres across that century.
And our 21st century oldies now are truly songs over 8-10 years old.
Just my 25 cents
Travis Medcalf
WWCS, WRCV, WEEO, WJEJ, WWMD, WJJB, WDZN, & WJAL-TV68
(Referred by Buck Lam)

Welcome aboard, Travis. Part of what's been wrong with radio for the past 25 years is this feeling of need to categorize everything ... segregating anything that might deviate from the format in even the slightest of ways. I keep leaning more and more toward the "Music For The Ages" concept ... now you don't have to categorize ANYTHING ... it ALL fits, played side by side. Or why not "Top 20 Radio" ... but the catch is you actually have to play EVERYTHING that was a Top 20 Hit. Sure, you'd still have heavy and medium rotation ... and you could still leave hundreds and hundreds of songs to be featured as "Wow's" ... but imagine a radio station that actually lived up to its name ... delivered what it advertised ... "We're Top 20 Radio, dammit, and that's what we're gonna play!!!" Boy what a concept!!! (kk)

***

According to noted Chicagoland Radio Columnist Robert Feder, it's Oldies Radio War here in Chicago ... although, quite honestly, I'm not all that impressed with what I'm hearing on the new K-Hits / WJMK ... the high-energy, modern-day sound of deejay patter on the station just doesn't work with the oldies format in my mind (no matter WHAT WLS General Manager Michael Damsky says ... that's not the sound we want blasting in our ears!) ... and, quite frankly, so far they seem to be playing the same tired oldies list as everybody else with even MORE emphasis on the '80's.

Meanwhile, Scott Shannon's 10 am - 3 pm slot on WLS-FM has now become more "localized" ... he regularly gives out the station's call letters and seems to have "custom fit" his program for the Chicagoland audience, even mentioning the other jocks on the station as well as our local promotions. As a MAJOR flagship station of The True Oldies Channel Network, this is a REAL plus for WLS ... without question Shannon is the most listenable jock in their line-up.

Unjustly left off of Feder's list of Chicagoland Oldies Stations is Y103.9 ... although they're a weak-signaled suburban station, they are (without question) playing the best mix of oldies in Chicago right now BY FAR ... "Wow" songs pop up all day long ... which is VERY refreshing (when you can pick up the signal! For the record, they also stream online where the sound is crystal clear.)

Click here: Homepage - Y103.9

Here's Robert Feder's recap:

Click here: Oldies are new again: Chicago radio war pays off for listeners Robert Feder - Time Out Chicago

Even the national industry trade "Ross On Radio" is giving Chicagoland kudos for embracing the oldies format ... but check out the feedback posted from the readers already ... mind you, these aren't comments that WE received ... these are comments posted to Robert Feder's recent Oldies War article ... they come from the folks here in Chicago who actually LISTEN to the oldies. (Seems to me, we're ALL singing the same song ... why isn't anybody listening?!?!?) kk

I hope that Scott Shannon plays more of the less famous oldies that I hear on XM (or, at least, I hear until my free time runs out). Although they frequently get their decades badly confused, XM does not ignore the 50s.
I’ve been a steady listener to whatever Chicago station played oldies (remember WFYR?). As a former oldies jock on Armed Forces Radio, myself, I hope that Scott is a huge success … thereby inviting lots of competition.

John McHugh

The "oldies format" has been around since the early '70's here in Chicago and it has always done well, with a VERY loyal and passionate audience ... before Magic 104 / WJMK, we had WFYR (The Great Chicago Fire!) ... and does anybody remember WGLD ... "solid gold"??? Think about it ... when oldies radio first started in the early '70's, all they had to play was the music of the '50's and the '60's ... and they played the heck out of these songs, thus establishing the format and introducing many of us (myself included) to the music we missed the first time around. Why radio now feels a need to incorporate so much of the late '70's, the '80's and now even the '90's and call it "oldies" is beyond me ... and, apparently, most of our readers seem to agree! (kk)

I’m bored of oldies or should I say “the same old oldies” – OMG please expand the playlists.

Ted (with Pete ... and Repeat)

Wake up, America!!! (kk)

I would like True Oldies 94.7 to start playing the oldies listeners haven’t heard for a long time. True oldies plays the same oldies instead of playing a bigger variety.

Thaddeus Budzynski

If I owned a radio station, I would hire Bob Stroud to program it, with instructions to concentrate on what was popular in THIS town during the 60’s and 70’s. No song should be repeated more than once a week. They should have a play list of 5,000, not 500.

Good Old Number Nine

Two oldies stations could thrive if one focuses on the 50s and early 60s or at least 50s, 60s and early 70s and the other focuses on late 60s through ‘89. And I agree that the play list needs to be 2000-5000 songs, not 200-500.

Pat

I’m all for some different oldie songs as so many others stated. Same old gets old after awhile. How about a 24/7 request line like Dick Biondi’s Friday night request party? I sooo love that show because it is truly the only time on radio you can hear songs that are generally not played on a regular basis by our beloved Dick Biondi!!

Darlene Silvestri

And, from this week's in-depth oldies commentaries published by Gary Theroux and Ron Smith, we received THESE comments:

I absolutely loved Gary Theroux's definition of an oldie and all he had to say about music.

I completely agree.

Stacee

Kent,

I want you to know that I have read Gary Theroux's analysis of what an "oldie" is, would you believe, three times since I got home today. To me, this is the ultimate definition of what an "oldie" is or maybe should be.

Larry Neal

It's an honor to have music scholars like Gary Theroux and Ron Smith contribute their opinions on this topic to our forum ... here's hoping SOMEBODY out there is paying attention!!! (kk)

And, from the guys themselves:

Gee, I kinda agreed with that Theroux guy, too. And I like what Ron had to say.

Gary Theroux

My Forgotten Hits interview comments are guaranteed to ensure I will never work in radio again!

Ron Smith

What Is An Oldie? (Part 6)

Ron Smith, a 30-year radio veteran (both behind the microphone and behind the scenes), clearly shares our love and appreciation of oldies music. In fact, he even named his website "oldiesmusic.com" ... (now who wouldn't kill to have THAT domain name!!!) ... and has dedicated it to keeping alive the great

memories of this music that we all grew up loving.

Ron has published several books documenting the History of the Chicagoland music charts and, later this spring, will release his latest publication, "EIGHT DAYS A WEEK: Births, Deaths And Events Each Day In Oldies History" ... sure to be the ultimate oldies calendar book. (He also currently programs the '50's and '60's channels for Slacker Radio (www.slacker.com) ... where you help to create your own personal radio station based on your tastes in music.

Click here: Slacker Personal Radio - Listen to Free Internet Radio Stations

We ran a short interview with Ron last week regarding Real Oldies 1690 AM here in Chicago, a radio station he was with from start to finish both as an on-air personality and as a programmer / music consultant.

Clearly his focus has been ... for the past thirty years ... oldies music ...

So who better to ask ...

"What Is An 'Oldie'?"

We wanted to know:

Is it based on a very specific, locked-in era in time?

Has your definition of an "oldie" changed over the years?

What was your inspiration for starting the website way back when?

And, based on your steady stream of visitors over the years, where is the oldies focus today ...

And is it where it SHOULD be?

Or has radio gone astray programming oldies music today?

If you're a fan of oldies music, I think you'll enjoy Ron's perspective and insight on this topic ... it really is quite enlightening. More "food for thought" for an industry that seems to have lost its way. (It's pretty simple really ... If you don't believe in what you're selling, you probably can't sell it.)

Read on ...

In the mid-'90s, I worked for a software training company and part of my job was explaining this thing called the "Internet" to businesses and industrial organizations. As an evangelist for the Net, I posited that it would allow everyone to share with the world the things they knew well, allowing all of us to have instant access to unlimited information. (If only I had though to call that "Wikipedia," I could have retired in luxury by now.)

To that end, I created OldiesMusic.com, sharing information I'd collected over the years as program director of WCCQ-FM in Joliet, as the producer of Art Roberts' "Hey Baby! They're Playin' Our Song" and as Music Director of WJMK in Chicago. I shared my Oldies Calendar (soon to be a best-selling book), the number one songs in Chicago each week, trivia and -- best of all -- a community of other Oldies fans sharing and helping each other. Even the commercial aspects of the site -- books, CDs and DVDs -- were originally designed to help those in areas not served by the great mom-and-pop Oldies record stores we have in Chicago find the latest releases.

(As a side note, thanks to the passage of an Internet sales tax by our politicians in Springfield, Amazon has dropped all Illinois affiliates, including me, placing all of that in jeopardy).

When I started the site, there was some objection to my including the '70s at all (my list of #1 songs goes all the way to 1980). However, I felt that with the popularity of Classic Rock stations and even "All '70s" stations (we had one briefly back then in Chicago) that the site should cover three decades.

As you've already pointed out in your series, music has had several "milestones," if you will. There were rock 'n' roll songs before 1955 but when Bill Haley's "Rock Around The Clock" went to #1 that year and Elvis Presley became the first teen phenomenon the following year, it was a milestone. Likewise, the advent of the British Invasion was another milestone. Some would say the psychedelic and heavier music of 1968 and 1969 is another milestone. That may be too strong a term for it, but it certainly marks a differentiation.

These milestones are not only musical but, in many ways, sociological, as well. As someone who was in college at the time, I can state that a sociological change occurred in 1972, as well. I would say the '60s ended that year. And when one looks at the music on the charts in the Fall of that year -- Elvis Presley, Rick Nelson, Johnny Nash, the Moody Blues -- it's easy to add that the '60s ended musically after that, as well. I've often said that "Crocodile Rock" by Elton John was the last sixties song.

It's harder to delineate the next milestones --

Is it Disco or the Urban Cowboy fad?

Punk?

That's hard to say because you are no longer dealing with a cohesive audience. People listening to the hits of the '60s primarily listened to Top 40 stations. So oldies stations playing the '60s are reaching most of those who listened to rock radio back then.

But in the '70s, the audience fragmented into Top 40 and album-oriented stations. Playing music from the '70s garners you only a portion of those listeners. That's one of the reasons why an all - '70s station has a problem. They have a difficult time balancing the Carpenters, Bread and Barry Manilow with Blue Oyster Cult and Foghat. Those are two separate audiences. Things get even worse in the '80s, as you add heavy metal and alternative stations.

When I interviewed with the West Coast consultant putting WJMK on-the-air in 1984, he asked me what years I thought the station should encompass. For the reasons I just enumerated, I said 1955 to 1972. He immediately asked if I knew that WCBS-FM in New York played currents. I said I was aware of this, but felt they had evolved into what they were and we couldn't start out trying to be all things to all people (WCBS-FM broke a lot of rules successfully but they weren't a great role model for new stations in other cities). Somehow, I was still hired (as Acting Music Director -- I got the full title two months later) and we put the station on-the-air his way (without an actual Program Director). To the credit of our General Manager, Harvey Pearlman, the station wasn't on-the-air four hours before he doubled the number of '50s tunes because it didn't "sound" like an Oldies station. And he asked me to get more local artists like the New Colony Six, the Ides of March and Aliotta, Haynes & Jeremiah on the playlist ASAP. I'll take credit for convincing the GM to remove the "recurrents" (former current tunes six months-to-a year old) from the playlist and Gary Price finished off the currents ("Future Gold," they were called) when he was hired as Program Director two weeks later.

It was a pretty gutsy move. One General Manager in town was quoted as saying something to the effect of, "All Oldies is okay for Saturday nights but you can't make an entire format out of it." But WJMK did, for over 20 years. (I met that GM at an industry function a couple of years ago and wanted to throw his words in his face. But he was too drunk to appreciate the irony. Yes, I have a long memory.)

We never intended to change the time frame of the music. Why should we?
We were appealing to Baby Boomers, who would always be the largest segment of the population. As they mature (and so do their IRAs) they become the most affluent retirees ever -- houses paid, kids married and treating themselves to life's luxuries. I don't buy the notion that they've made their product choices and are set on them. I don't drink Schlitz or drive a VW microbus anymore and I believe Beechnut Gum (an old American Bandstand sponsor) is out of business now. Baby Boomers' tastes change right along with everyone else's. Advertisers ignore them at their own peril.

I have never seen an Oldies station lower its demographics by playing more recent music. They end up becoming less appealing to their core audience, who find alternative sources for the music they love, such as satellite radio, Internet radio ("I hear the '50s Hits and '60s Hits channels on Slacker.com are outstanding," he said shamelessly) and I-Pods.

Certainly, there has been great music recorded since 1972. I love much of that music. So I'm not going to argue with those who appreciate that music and want to find a place for it on the radio. But diluting the oldies format with music that isn't as strong as that from the "Golden Age of Top 40 Radio" creates the kind of situation that caused the demise of WJMK and WCBS-FM in favor of "Jack FM" six years ago.

What is an oldie?

Anything you want it to be.

What is the Oldies radio format?

Past Top 40 hits from 1955 to 1972.

Certainly not the '80s.

And here's another thing --

If you're ashamed to say the word "Oldies," you're probably not playing them.

Nor should you be.

-- Ron Smith

Well said, Ron, well said.

Lock into an era and GO with it!!!

Let the other 30 stations in town fight over the same audience by playing the same music up and down the dial.

Be unique ... do something to stand out and set yourself apart from every other radio station in town ... but stay true to your format.

As we said the other day, there are literally THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of other songs you could be playing from this same era that are being ignored. Stick with the format and feature more of these as "Wow" songs and continue to build your audience by being true to yourself.

Practice what you preach ... trust me, a list of The Top 300 "Greatest Hits Of All Time" does NOT include any Eddie Money songs!!! And certainly not at the expense of the HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of legitimate Top 20 Hits you're not playing instead.

Deliver what you're advertising ... and the audience will come ... and a very LOYAL audience you'll find it to be. America LOVES its oldies ... so let 'em rip! (kk)

What Is An Oldie? (Part 5)

Today's report comes from Gary Theroux ... a guy who knows a thing or two about oldies music and radio ... read on ...

An oldie is a former current.

Currents are the hits presently listed on Billboard's Hot 100 (or your station's playlist of this week's hot material). Once a track drops off that list, it is an oldie. It may be one month or one century old, but it is still an oldie. And, for that matter, currents are simply future oldies. Which ones the station will continue to play in the coming years will be help explain it's target demographic.

You write, "the music that [has] MOST affected your life is probably what you were listening to at about the age of 12 or 13 or 14. THIS is the music that has left the most long-lasting impression on your being. It's where your greatest affection for music exists."

You're correct -- except that the time frame you're chosen is a little bit early. When you're in your early teens, you're attracted to certain hits because of the SOUND of them -- not what they're about. That's because you have yet to experience the subject matter of nearly all hits: the game of love (to quote Wayne Fontana & the Mindbenders). It's only later, after you've lived through some romantic highs and lows, that you go back and re-hear the tunes which attracted you as a kid and you go, "Wow. So THAT'S what that song is about."

One of the most common questions I've asked in doing radio research has been, "When do you think the very best music was recorded?" Everyone has a ready answer and gives me a bracket of years. I then reply, "And what years were you in high school and college?" Funny, isn't it, how those two time spans turn out to be one in the same.

It's during that eight year cocoon from the reality of mortgages, braces on kids’ teeth and being involved in full time employment that people are surrounded -- for the very last time -- by a large group of single individuals all roughly the same age (and have a lot of free time). They’re also actively participating in auditions for marriage -- a practice also known as "dating." Interestingly enough, most hit songs are ABOUT dating – the process of falling in and out of love -- as opposed to "we've been married for ten years." (Country songs, as opposed to pop, are far more likely to deal with post-wedding situations.) Therefore, this demographic -- the one with the most free time to pay attention to the ever changing occupants of The Pop Top Ten -- does so as the songs mirror the very passions currently flaming in their hearts.

Once OUT of college (or high school, if you go no farther), that peer group vanishes and the reality of adult life settles in. Priorities shift as ex-students begin careers, marry and start families. Who has the time anymore to stay on top of the latest musical fads – especially as the songs focus on something they're no longer doing -- DATING -- as opposed to being married, having kids and putting bread on the table. The contemporary music scene slowly fades in importance.

BUT -- the music those students paid close attention to -- the songs that spoke to and for their hearts during their high schools and college dating years -- remain magic forevermore. The marks those words and that music left on our psyches are eternally vivid – and magic. Later (or earlier) hits, which we did not let sink in as far, do not resonate nearly as well. Goll darn it – THESE WERE AND ARE OUR SONGS. They spoke to and for us – and always will.

Making music, at its essence, is a way of painting portraits of human emotion using sound. Paint, for example, has no emotion in itself, but in the hands of an artist, paint can be arranged on a canvas in such a way as to evoke an emotional reaction in people. Sound, too, has no emotion within itself. But -- in the hands of an artist – sound can paint portraits of feelings which will cause listeners of any age to react emotionally. They may laugh, shed a tear, dare to dream, feel euphoric, desire to dance, march, unwind, fight, recall a precious memory or throw their arms around someone. That's the power of music: the master manipulator of mood. Remember that the only reason why anyone selects any specific CD to play is THE WAY IT WILL MAKE THEM FEEL. It’ll either reinforce the mood they're in or take them where they want to go. Filmmakers and TV producers know all too well the power of music. That's why they go to such lengths to find just the right scoring to enhance the mood of every scene. It’s funny how you can take the same piece of film footage and apply six different music tracks to it – evoking a very different tone in each and every case. The viewer may realize their mood is being manipulated – and in the best films, they DON’T notice -- but it most certainly is.

Through words and music, hit songs are a lot like audio movies – or even snapshots, painting portraits in sound of key moments in a love story. And if you can identify with the emotional snapshot in time that a given song evokes, then that song works for you. It speaks to and for your heart.

All that is a lead-up to this key point. Music moves people of ALL ages -- from tiny tots to the most seasoned of us all. It’s not something that affects only the young – even though it’s while we’re young that most of the evergreens which will forever live in our internal jukeboxes get placed there. All of us have our own bracket of years in which we’ll always feel that the best music was recorded – even though there were great hits cut in the years both before and after that magic bracket. I myself have spent most of my career trying to help people escape their personal brackets – and give a chance to the terrific tunes from both before and after “their time.” One must remember, though, that “that time” will forever resonate.

In studying more than a century of hit songs, it’s fascinating to realize that the music of every era, for all intents and purposes, deals with exactly the same emotional issues. All that's really different are the settings in which those same feelings are addressed. Love sought, love found, love lost, love renewed, love never to be forgotten and pledges of eternal devotion are present in every single era and style of popular music. Are you willing to open your ears to the songs and stars from outside “your time”? If you are, you’ll discover, as I have, a wealth of wonderful music that can work for you if you’re only willing to give it a chance.

The best hits truly are timeless.

Gary Theroux

What Is An Oldie? (Part 4)

We'll have lots more of your comments on this topic all week long ...

To read what's come before, just scroll back to last week! And check back throughout the week for even more on this subject ... some EXCELLENT food for thought. (Hopefully a few of the deejays on the list are listening, too!)


To answer our question, WHAT IS AN OLDIE?, some of our readers took the most basic, literal, educational approach ....

Kent,
To answer your question of what is an "oldie", first I went to my dictionary and to see just what it said. It said that an "oldie" is something old and often, well known, as a motion picture or a song. Than was pretty obvious. Now I believe that the great majority of your readers are like me in that an "oldie" pertains to a song, especially the phrase "an oldie but a goody".
Now then, how old does an "oldie" have to be? One "oldie' to a person may not be an"oldie" to the next. I guess you could say a song from ten years ago could be considered to be an "oldie". If a song, say from ten years ago is considered to be an "oldie" by some people, then a song from ten or more years could be also an "oldie" Some people would say that an "oldie" is like a fine wine, it gets better with age.
Not all records are "oldies but goodies" An "oldie" say, a breakin by Dickie Goodman to a lot of people is not considered to be a "goodie" An "oldie" when heard by someone may bring back memories of what they were doing at the time the song came out, maybe even bringing back memories of] what they were exactly doing the moment they heard the song for the first time, either on the radio or on a jukebox.
A few weeks ago on the TOC, Scott Shannon played Bertie Higgins 1981 song KEY LARGO. A couple of days earlier he played Paul Davis' 1982 song '65 LOVE AFFAIR. Now assuming that one graduated from highschool in those years, they would be 48 and 49 years old, respectively. Now to those people, those songs would be considered "oldies". A song or"oldie" they remember from their childhood, primarily their highschool years. To be honest with you, I consider them "oldies" also. They may not be quite as good an "oldie" like a song from the mid to late fifties-sixties to someone like me.
Nowadays it seem that "oldie" radio stations are playing songs from the seventies. They are programming music to those that grew up in the seventies just like a few years before "oldie" radio stations were programming to those that grew up in the mid to late fifties and nineteen sixties.
So, what is an "oldie"? There is an old expression that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" An "oldie" may be various and sundry things to an individual. It will be interesting to see what your readers have to say as to what they thing an "oldie" is. I have often said that if you wanted to ask someone what their definition of a "hit" record is, ask ten people and you probably will get ten different answers.
Larry


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oldie
"a popular song, joke, movie, ... old person or thing"
So, there you have it ... we are the oldies!!! :-)
John

Others put their own spin on defining an era ...

Kent,

According to Don McLean (full interview here: 'Music is dead' Stuff.co.nz ), popular music has been dead for 25 years.

In an interview with Vicki Anderson in the New Zealand Press, he says "I don't hear music any more. I hear drums, guitars and pianos playing things, but it's not melodies. I don't hear melodies. It's not music, it's repetitive -- the same thing over and over again -- no more than two or three notes, tops. It's a little phrase, and they're so proud of themselves with this little phrase that they say it eight million times."

He prefers "most of the music before 1985, when people still wrote songs."

-- Henry McNulty

One thing that kind of confuses me. Most people here consider "oldies" strictly 1960's and earlier, but back in say, the 1970's we considered 50's and some 60's as oldies when they were in reality only 10 - 20 years old. Now, in 2011, songs from the 70,s and 80's are just as old but they are not "oldies"? Now don't get me wrong, I agree with everyone here that the 50's and 60's were by far the best decades in music, but that doesn't mean there were not a lot of good songs in the 70's and 80's too. And people that were teens in those decades (younger than us old guys LOL) probably consider them oldies. Another thing too, young adults today (I don't mean teens) seem to like our music too. I have four daughters that are all in their 30's and many times I have put on old songs from the 50's and 60's and, even though they are hearing a lot of them for the first time, their reaction is almost always positive. Teens today, well that's another story. Most of them wouldn't know a good song if they heard one.

Wayne

Interestingly enough, somebody sent in this posting from Ron Smith's oldiesmusic.com website ... reading this now it absolutely could pertain to today's music ... but check out the date ... it was actually published back in 1967 (which just happens to be my all-time favorite year in music!!!)

Oldies Music Bulletin Board: FRANKLY WE'RE TIRED.........

Kent -

Got this from Ron Smith's Board. I'd like to know what you think about it.

Frank B.

Speaking of Ron Smith, thanks again for doing our little interview last week regarding Real Oldies 1690 ... and for posting our WHAT IS AN OLDIE? inquiry on your website. (Some of the comments you'll read this week were first posted on Ron's awesome oldiesmusic.com website). We're hoping to talk to Ron further on this subject ... and have asked Scott Shannon for an "exclusive" Forgotten Hits Interview, too, on this topic ... CLEARLY something we all feel pretty passionate about. (With a brand new "oldies" station starting in Chicago today ... K-HITS 104 ... it'll be interesting to see if WLS-FM steps up their "game" a little bit to concentrate more on some of the OLDER oldies ... and leave the '80's to these new guys. (kk)

I just read your interview with Ron Smith, and I never realized how much you guys think like me (or vice versa...grin) ... I thought I was a loner in this world of music. I have been trying to find backers for several years (money) to buy a station and program the oldies music, songs that are never played anymore, or that never made it on the charts. I also think there is a generation of youngsters out there that would fall in love with that music IF they were given a chance to hear it. You Tube, I have discovered, is a good source for hearing songs that even I have never heard before, (and I am a retired DJ). But these are the songs I would program on a station so everyone could enjoy them either again or for the first time.
I would throw away the darned play lists that killed radio in my opinion, and let the D.J's do there thing once again. Put some real life personality in radio again and make it fun for everyone.
WLS-FM General Manager Michael Damsky hit it on the head with the younger generation finding the oldies today. I could go on and on for hours, but you get my drift.
When younger listeners today hear the music as they would in a movie, they will connect with it and either love it or hate it as we would. How many times have you heard a song and said it was the worst thing you ever heard, but you listen and it grew on you and you ended up loving it. Happened to me many times. But others I listened to and said it would be number one and it did.
Likewise the obscure songs that never made it to even the top 100, I listen to for the first time (via Youtube) and I say wow, why didn't they play that 40 years ago? Give it a spin today and let the listeners hear it. Throw out the playlists and Let the DJ's do their thing and make the programming interesting coupled with the music. I am sure there would have to be a few restrictions, but very few.
Look at the country (?) music of today and 10-15 years ago, a lot of it was just remakes of old rock songs and they had hits with it. I also think a rock and country format would do wonders. Programming oldies rock with oldies Country & Western songs, would go good together on a station. But it would have to be presented right to make it work.
Keep up the good work.
Earl (Just My 2 Cents Worth)

I think an oldie is whatever one wants it to be, as long as the song was released at least 6 or 7 years earlier. Some 20 - somethings might consider "Kiss From A Rose" by Seal or "Truly Madly Deeply" by Savage Garden oldies at this point. OK, enough on "their" music!!!!!

For me an oldie is any recording released before 1976. Generally speaking -- !!!! I tend to go with the "Disco spoiled the whole thing" flow. For example: "Coming Up" by Paul McCartney? Not an oldie. "Hey, You" by BTO? Definitely an oldie. The Alice Cooper track you featured last week -- not an oldie. In other words, anything from the 50s -- say about 1954 or 1955 -- through 1975. My mom would regard a Doris Day hit from say 1950 or a Tony Martin hit from 1945 as a golden oldie (but probably not anything by the Beatles or even Elvis; she's more into the Hit Parade era.) That should cover it for now, can't wait to read what the others have to say.

Best,

Bobster

XM has had great success with their "Decades" Channels ... spotlighting ONLY music from the '50's, '60's, '70's, '80's, etc., and nothing more depending on which decade you choose to tune into. But even that seems a bit distorted today ... because the changes and shifts in music didn't really occur at each decade's turning point.

For example, the benefit of 20 / 20 hindsight says that "The Golden Age Of Rock And Roll" really falls into the period of 1955 (Rock Around The Clock) through 1963 (right before The Beatles hit in America) ... then you've got The '60's (which is REALLY 1964 - 1970, aka The Beatles Era) ... and then the '70's, which tend to stand alone (depending on whether or not you decide to include disco or not ... as we've said before, for some the BEST of times, for others the very WORST of times.)

Regarding Elvis oldies airplay, other than a special birthday or death anniversary tribute weekend, radio RARELY plays anything by Elvis pre-dating "Suspicious Minds" anymore ... in fact, The King Of Rock And Roll ... with over 150 Billboard Chart Hits ... has been reduced to a radio two-hit wonder ... "Suspicious Minds" and "Burnin' Love" ... and that's about it! Billboard themselves haven't helped the cause by declaring the beginning of the "charts that matter" mid-1958 when The Hot 100 officially made its debut, thus eliminating Elvis' first 30 chart hits in the process (including ten #1 records!!!) This is HARDLY the respect an artist of Elvis' caliber deserves ... he influenced not only an entire generation but also every successful music artist who came after him. "Suspicious Minds" and "Burnin' Love" are both great songs ... but they are hardly representative of Elvis' catalog of music. And it REALLY frosts me when The True Oldies Channel plays one of the Elvis millennium remixes instead of one of his original REAL hits recorded while he was still alive ... especially with such a WEALTH of material to choose from! (kk)

Kent:

To my way of thinking, an "Oldie" is simply any song that's five years older than the listener!

Clark Weber

Hi Kent -
I can understand the dilemma of determining what "oldies" are and, after giving it some thought, I narrowed it down like this:

The term "Oldies" was used to define music that was played in the 50's, 60's and early 70's when I was growing up. And there was no doubt in ANYBODY'S mind what an oldie was or what you would hear on an oldies station. I think it was the late 70's or early 80's when many more genres started popping out of the woodwork to describe various other music (like disco, alternative, elevator).
With the amount of time that has passed I think people take "oldies" to have expanded like the term antique does with cars (anything over 25 years old). But I personally don't think music should follow suit. Oldies at the time were defining a certain sound not so much how old a song was. If it was just how old a song was why don't oldies radio stations play a mix of rock, disco, country, blue grass, polka and anything else that has reached a certain age? As you said, oldies was a baby boomers thing. What they need to do for all the music that came AFTER the oldies (what they are calling oldies now) is to come up with a different name that would encompass this other accumulation of music. What that name could be I am sorry but I have no suggestions. Well, one idea comes to mind. I had a CD collection called "Big Hair Rock" because of all the bands that used to sport those aweful hairdos back in the 80's.
Just my 2 cents
-- Buck Lam

You raise a good point ... and I have to agree with you.

Here's the part I don't get ... if we decide that "oldies music" is a specific moment in time ... and even if that moment is "the first 25 years of rock and roll", which is pretty much the era that we have always presented in Forgotten Hits ... why would there ever be a need to stray from presenting that format? The term DEFINES the era and you don't need to change the definition to reach a broader audience at the expense of losing every bit as many listeners in the process ... at this rate, how do you ever get ahead??? As more listeners come to discover this era of music, you'll ADD listeners ... without risking driving anyone away. Doesn't that simply make more sense in the long run???

If you were doing a period piece on The Civil War, for example, covering a very specific moment in history ... you wouldn't revamp that game plan ten or fifteen years later to cover the ten years that came AFTER The Civil War, right??? Just because a new generation came along doesn't mean you have to CHANGE the focus. These folks deserve the same chance to discover this music that WE had.

And here's the really crazy part. We figured it out a few years ago that between 1955 and 1979, something like 7000 songs made Billboard's Top 40 Chart. Now granted, they weren't all gems ... some were out and out crap that still muddled in somehow ... but even if you acknowledge that HALF the crap released during those 25 years was exactly that ... crap that doesn't deserve to be played on the radio anymore ... that STILL leaves 3500 songs that DO deserve a spin now and then. Now add in some of the classic album tracks that we all grew up with during that era and pretty soon you're right back up around 5000 songs again.

So why does radio only play about 300 of them? Think about this for a second ... if you want to "shake things up" a little bit, add MORE songs from the same era ... that way you're still catering to your audience but you're ALSO programming in more variety that still fits the format! Give 150 - 200 of those 300 "everydays" a rest and program in 150 "new" oldies from that same era ... see which ones catch on (and which ones don't) ... heck, you've STILL got 3000 more songs to choose from if a few of these come up "stiffs"!!! And then repeat this process every three months or so and all of a sudden you've got listeners tuning in again and again to see what other "new" oldies you might be featuring next!

Don't dilute the concept simply to expand the era ... the era IS what it WAS ... you can't rewrite history ... so EMBRACE it ... and leave the '80's, '90's and millennium tunes to the OTHER 20 stations in town that are already playing them anyway ... and stand out and be UNIQUE!!! Stay focused ... do what you came here to do ... and embrace that genre ... and I guarantee the love will come back to you ten fold. (Damn, now I sound like a frickin' chain letter ... forward this message on to ten more radio stations before midnight tonight ... but the sincerity of the message is real ... if you're going to call yourself an "oldies station", PLAY THE OLDIES, dammit!!!) kk

More to come later in the week ... so stay tuned.

If you'd like to voice YOUR opinion on this topic, just drop us a line at forgottenhits@aol.com ... and then keep watching these pages for more on this subject. Slowly but surely we just may change the way oldies are presented on the radio ... but we need your support ... so if you're a fan of oldies radio, let us know what you think ... what you like ... and what you don't. What can radio do better? What songs and artists belong on an oldies station ... which ones don't? We want to hear from you! (kk)

DON'T FORGET: The brand new K-HITS launches this afternoon ... if you're in Chicago, be sure to tune your radio to 104.3 FM a little before 1:00 this afternoon ... at exactly 1:04 (get it???), they kick off their new K-Hits Format, programming music of the '60's, '70's and '80's on what USED to be Jack-FM. (Prior to that, of course, it was Magic 104, WJMK ... at the time, Chicago's premier oldies station!)