Their one hit wonder "Talk Talk" is a garage band classic. It reached #15 in early 1967 (and was recently requested by one of our readers as a "Today's Forgotten Hit" suggestion.) Hailing from Los Angeles, their bassist Keith Olsen became an in-demand record producer in the 1980's, working with artists like Ozzy Osbourne, Heart, Santana, Journey, Pat Benatar, Fleetwood Mac, Foreigner and The Grateful Dead amongst others. (kk)
The Music Machine’s ‘Talk Talk’ has to be the most powerful garage rock song to ever become a hit. The short but lethal tune introduced the world to Sean Bonniwell’s one glove wearing, black clad combo — and as a result probably scared more than a handful of people. The core members of the Los Angeles group — Ron Edgar, Keith Olsen, Mark Landon and Doug Rhodes — all ended up contributing mightily to rock and roll history. I won’t go into details here; look them up — you’ll be glad you did.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#24 - COUNT FIVE:
Count Five is another artist that made our Top 20 All-Time Favorite Psychedelic Songs Countdown, thanks to their 1966 Top Five Hit "Psychotic Reaction." You can find a more in-depth bio on our other Forgotten Hits webpage:
Although owing a great debt to the Yardbirds, the Count Five’s ‘Psychotic Reaction’ is a prime example of Garage Rock 101. The San Jose group quickly recorded an entire album after their classic song became a smash, but none of their other recordings came anywhere close to again gaining national prominence. With a song like ‘Psychotic Reaction’ as your signature tune, however … who cares? Lester Bangs further immortalized the Count Five in his 1972 book Psychotic Reaction and Carburetor Dung.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#23 - THE SYNDICATE OF SOUND:
Another one hit wonder ... but what a GREAT, catchy tune. ("Little Girl" went all the way to#8 Nationally) We used to play this one back in the day ... and it always got a great (if somewhat surprised) reaction. Recently I've seen a couple of other bands do this one, too ... ALWAYS to the delight of their audience. (See, we remember!!!) I guarantee that your radio listeners would react the same way (if somebody would only play it!) Another band from San Jose, they'd chart twice more before they disappeared. (kk)
Another San Jose group (the third, by my count, to make this list), the Syndicate Of Sound’s ‘Little Girl’ reached the Top 10 in 1966. They did release an album and three follow-up singles, but nothing that attained the heights of ‘Little Girl’. The rest of their recordings should not be overlooked, however. ‘Mary’, ‘Keep It Up’ and ‘Rumors’ are all excellent.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#22 - THE TROGGS:
Could there BE a better definition of the grunge / garage band sound than "Wild Thing" by The Troggs??? A #1 Record and a timeless classic, The Troggs were a bit more diverse than this head-banger might indicate ... they also scored Top 40 Hits with the beautiful ballads "With A Girl Like You" and "Love Is All Around You". Although 148 of your votes still wasn't enough to get them into The Top 20, their legacy provided the perfect reason to do a Runners' Up List in the first place! (kk)
While their other top hits, especially ‘With A Girl Like You’, ‘Anyway That You Want Me’ and ‘Love Is All Around’, might portray them in a different light, the Troggs will forever be immortalized by ‘Wild Thing’, a song they initially were hesitant to record due to its “groovy” lyrics. The Troggs have been cited as inspirations by many later garage rock / punk bands, with ‘I Can’t Control Myself’ and ‘I Want You’ being particularly influential.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#21 - THE 13th FLOOR ELEVATORS:
Another group who never really had a legitimate pop hit, ("You're Gonna Miss Me" was as close as they came when it peaked at #55 in 1966), they also rankamongst the hard-core garage band fanatics favorites. Thanks to their on-going "nuggets" classification, these guys also earned quite a few votes in our Favorite Psychedelic Song Poll a few years ago ... but not enough to make the list. Here, they just missed ... falling one spot outside The Top 20 with 159 readers selecting them as their favorite. (kk)
Often thought of as more a psychedelic group than a garage band, The 13th Floor Elevators only had one song that came close to being a hit — the screaming classic ‘You’re Gonna Miss Me’. While the Roky Erickson-led, electric-jug based group recorded four albums and released seven singles, it is ‘You’re Gonna Miss Me’ that they’ll most likely always be remembered for. The Texas group performed the song on both American Bandstand and Where The Action is, influencing countless bands across the country along the way.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
The countdown of your Top 20 Favorites kicks off tomorrow
The list continues today with five more "Runners Up"!
#30 - THE CRYAN' SHAMES
The first of FOUR Chicagoland Groups to make the list is The Cryan' Shames. While I'm not convinced that they were a "garage band" in the typical sense, their first chart hit "Sugar And Spice" has since been designated a "nugget", appearing on several various artists compilations over the years and becoming (for most music fans outside Chicago anyway) their best-known hit. A remake of The Searchers' tune, it ultimately hit #39 on The Record World Pop Singles Chart, their only National Top 40 showing. "I Wanna Meet You" (one of my faves) and "Mr. Unreliable" probably qualify for garage band status ... but after that, the impeccable harmonies for which the band was best known for here locally shone through on gems like the Beach Boys-esque "It Could Be We're In Love" (#1 in Chicago for four weeks in 1967) and their rendition of the Carole King classic "Up On The Roof". (Legend has it that King had The Cryan' Shames' version played at her second wedding!)
"Greenburg, Glickstein, Charles David Smith and Jones" was the monster, hard-rock hit that shoulda been (but never was) and then they were gone ... from the charts anyway. Led by J.C. Hooke, the band still plays local gigs each summer, sometimes with as many as two or three original members onboard. (kk)
Perhaps I’m going out on a limb when I unashamedly state that the Cryan’ Shames recorded the greatest song ever not to become a #1 smash. ‘It Could Be We’re In Love’ was far from a garage rock song, but ‘60’s pop doesn’t get any better. The group deserved far greater success than their excellent cover of ‘Sugar and Spice’ (and, to a lesser degree, Jim Fairs’ original ‘I Wanna Meet You’) afforded them. Chicago’s Shames could do it all, however, and ‘Ben Franklin’s Almanac’ is a fantastic representation of what garage rock is all about.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#29 - THE ROBBS
"The Kings Of 'Bubbling Under'", Wisconsin's The Robbs "just missed" The Billboard Hot 100 Pop Singles Chart five times ... adding insult to injury were additional failures (but HUGE fan favorites) like "Bittersweet" (a regional hit in several sections of the country ... but never enough at the same time to sustain a chart entry), "Cynthia Loves" and (as Cherokee, which was also the name of the studio they would found in the early '70's) "Girl, I've Got News For You." Best known here in Chicago was "Race With The Wind", a legitimate Top 20 Local Hit and "Rapid Transit", which climbed as high as #123 on Billboard's Bubbling Under Chart. We've devoted many pages to The Robbs over the years in Forgotten Hits, who were also taken under the wing of Dick Clark, who cast them as semi-regulars on the afternoon teenie-bopper classic "Where The Action Is". Although their faces were plastered on numerous teen magazines of the day, they STILL didn't catch on to enough of a mass audience to gain them a hit record. But OUR readers know who they are ... and cast 116 votes for The Robbs as one of their All-Time Favorite Garage Bands! (kk)
If it wasn’t for their regular appearances on Where The Action Is and in the teen magazines of the day, Wisconsin’s Robbs would be probably completely forgotten today. After all, I have never heard a Robbs’ song on the radio, and I’ve been listening for over 35 years. What a shame. ‘Race With The Wind’, ‘Rapid Transit’ and ‘Bittersweet’ gained some chart recognition but deserved to be massive hits. Yes … they later recorded as Cherokee in the 1970s and opened Cherokee Studios in Los Angles, where many top acts recorded, but they accomplished enough as the Robbs to also be remembered for their ‘60s music.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#28 - DAVIE ALLAN AND THE ARROWS:
I don't know that I would have necessarily considered these guys in the Garage Band category ... surf rock maybe? BikerRock? "Cycle-delic Rock"??? But they earned enough of your votes (117 as a matter of fact!) to land in one of the Runners' Up Positions. Their biggest chart hit was "Blues' Theme" from the movie "The Wild Angels", a #27 National Hit (and #3 hit here in Chicago.)
Davie has been an active supporter and participant in Forgotten Hits for many years now ... in fact, we've even given away a number of free, autographed CDs to some of our readers, as he's still recording new music all the time! (kk)
Probably better known for recording surf and “biker music” (for countless ‘60s exploitation flicks), Davie Allan & The Arrows are another of the handful of groups we’re profiling in this special countdown. The band had four national hits (and a few regional hits here and there.) ‘Apache ‘65’ achieved some local (California) success and resulted in a national TV appearance on Shindig!. Although many different musicians comprised The Arrows throughout the years, Drew Bennett and Russ Viot were mainstays, and made TV appearances with Allan on both Get Smart and The Invaders.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
Even though I had a few singles (the one hit was "Apache '65"), the major success of "The Arrows" came with the soundtrack work. There was only one official "Arrow" (besides me) early on and that was drummer Larry Brown. We did a short film titled "Skaterdater" with union musicians (Larry Knechtel, Joe Osborne, Al Casey and Jim Horn) that got the ball rolling for doing the soundtracks. The way the story goes is that Roger Corman saw "Skaterdater" and said something like" that's the sound I want for "The Wild Angels". I added the great Drew Bennett on bass plus Russ Viot on rhythm guitar replaced by Wayne Allwine (who became the 3rd official voice of "Mickey Mouse" in 1977). We did various trips and only one tour across the country (partly because we were recording almost everyday for about five years). Other notable soundtracks (of the two dozen or so) includes "Devil's Angels", "The Glory Stompers", "Born Losers" (that one introduced the character "Billy Jack").
Being called a "garage band" was ok. Later on my music was called "biker rock" and I've called it "melodic grunge" since the 90's. I still appear once in a while and since 2009 I've been recording my "Retrophonic" series. Volume 4 is due early in 2013 with new versions of "The Glory Stompers", "Ghost Riders in the Sky", "War Path" (it marks the first time I've re-recorded my first single) plus many new originals and cover tunes such as "Lullaby of the Leaves" and "Cara Mia".
-- Davie Allan
#27 - THE McCOYS:
The big hit, of course, was "Hang On Sloopy", a #1 Record in 1965 ... but The McCoys also did a great "garage band" cover of the old Peggy Lee torch song "Fever". (In fact, they made The Top 40 again with their remake of the Ritchie Valens song "Come On, Let's Go", too!) Guitarist Rick Derringer (then still Zehringer) went on to solo fame with "Rock And Roll Hoochie-Coo" and as part of The Edgar Winter Group. He has also recently toured with Ringo Starr. Another Midwest success story. (kk)
Probably best known for being Rick Derringer’s teen band, the McCoys had a monster smash with ‘Hang On Sloopy’. The group was one of the few from Indiana that managed any type of chart success in the ‘60s. Although you would never know it if you believe their “one-hit wonder” classification, the McCoys released four albums, a dozen singles and recorded eight other songs that landed in the Top 100.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#26 - THE CHOCOLATEWATCHBAND:
Although they never had a hit record, The Chocolate Watchband are one of the "cult favorites" on our list, a quintessential garage band probably made more nationally famous some 40 years later thanks to all of the "nuggets"compilations that have included some of their releases. While I personally am not especially familiar with their work, their complete history (written in their own words!) appears on their website: Click here: The Chocolate Watchband - the official band website - History (kk)
A “no-hit wonder” group? If any combo qualifies, it’s certainly San Jose’s Chocolate Watchband. While the band featured multiple line-ups and personnel on their recording sessions, their garage rock music catalog is as impressive as it gets. They are probably best remembered for their cover of The Grodes’ / Tongue Of Truths’ ‘Let’s Talk About Girls’, but their own songs — including ‘Misty Lane’, ‘She Weaves A Tender Trap’, ‘Sweet Young Thing’ and ‘Are You Gonna Be There (At The Love-In)’ — are every bit as amazing. They also appeared in two classic exploitation flicks: The Love-Ins and Riot On Sunset Strip.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBand.com
The countdown continues tomorrow in Forgotten Hits!
After much delay, we are FINALLY able to publish the results of our popular All-Time Favorite Garage Bands survey, conducted just prior to the big Forgotten Hits Computer Crash and Burn of 2012!
Over the next couple of weeks, we'll be recapping the results ... so stay tuned to see where your favorites landed.
And watch for details about an official radio countdown of The Top 20 Biggest ... coming soon to a radio station near you!
Special thanks to all of you who voted ... and to Mike Dugo of 60sGarageBands.com, who threw his support behind this project ... and even contributed short biographies on all of the winning bands! (kk)
The Runners-Up:
Our original intention was to tabulate The Top 20 All-Time Favorite Garage Bands ... but once all the votes were counted, we found that we had thirteen additional artists who earned 100 or more of your votes ... so we decided to expand the list and feature these "Runner Up" positions as well, thus honoring and acknowledging every artist that received 100 or more votes. (Hey, if you guys felt a band was worthy of 100 votes or more, WE have to treat them as worthy, too!!! Simple as that!)
Therefore ... when all is said and done ... the list shapes up like this:
#33 - THE BALLOON FARM
Hailing from New Jersey, these guys scored big on our Top 20 Favorite Psychedelic Songs Countdown several years back, too. (Their best known hit, "A Question of Temperature" ... also spelled "Tempature" on some early pressings of the record! ... ranked at #15.)
Group member Mike Appel went on to write songs for The Partridge Family ... and later managed the career Bruce Springsteen! (How's THAT for some musical diversity?!?!?) Their signature song reached #37 on the national pop charts ... and burned its way all the way to #11 here in Chicago in the Spring of 1968 (where we clearly had Balloon Farm fever!) kk
By far the most obscure group on the list (at least as far as the amount written on them), the Balloon Farm completely epitomizes the term “one-hit wonder.” ‘Question Of Temperature’ made Billboard’s Top 40 and was later immortalized by appearing on the Nuggets boxed set. The core members of New Jersey’s Balloon Farm also recorded singles as Adam and Huck Finn (as well as ‘Hurry Up Sundown’, the follow-up to their hit). Member Mike Appel found later success managing and producing Bruce Springsteen.
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#32 - FIVE BY FIVE
Another One Hit Wonder, Five By Five (out of Arkansas) got noticed when they released a very credible cover of the Jimi Henrix rock classic "Fire". (Their follow-up hit, "Apple Cider", bubbled under on the Billboard Pop Singles Chart, but has proven to be a fan favorite here in Forgotten Hits due to its regional hit status in various parts of the country.) "Fire" reached #31 nationally but was a Top Five Smash here in Chi-Town. (We LOVED our Garage Band Groups in the '60's!!!) kk
How about a group from Magnolia, Arkansas, making the list? Five By Five had a minor hit with a cover of Jimi Hendrix' "Fire" in 1968 and also had some chart success in 1970 with "Apple Cider." If you haven't heard either song, you might be very surprised to learn that the group released eight singles on the Paula label, as well as a full album ("Next Exit", 1968).
Mike Dugo / 60sGarageBands.com
#31 - THEM
Chicago's very own Shadows Of Knight made "Gloria" THEIR very own when it went Top Ten nationally in the Spring of 1966 ...and believe me, they earned their share of votes in this friendly little Garage Band Competition ... you WILL be seeing their name as we work our way closer to the top of this list!
But "Gloria" originally came from the pen of Ireland-born Van Morrison (more than a few miles away from The Windy City), who'd go on to far greater fame as a solo artist in the late '60's and '70's ... and is STILL cranking out excellent music today. His '60's British Invasion Group Them recorded the original version of this tune ... and it earned them enough votes for a spot on our Runners Up List. "Gloria" didn't make much of an impact for Them, stopping at #71 on The Billboard Hot 100 Pop Singles Chart in its second release, attempting to steal some of the thunder caused by The Shadows Of Knight's version. (When it was first released in 1965, it stalled at #93, and was actually considered the B-Side of Them's version of "Baby Please Don't Go". Despite never officially making Billboard's Hot 100, this track has also long been cited as a fan favorite.)
Their biggest hit was the Morrison-penned "Here Comes The NIght", which reached #24 in 1965. They would reach The Billboard Top 40 one more time with "Mystic Eyes" (#33, 1965) and then that was it. (kk)
The history books will always note Belfast, Ireland's Them as being the group Van Morrison was in before he struck it big with "Brown-Eyed Girl" and embarked on his solo career, but they (Them?) was so much more. They were the group to first record Morrison's garage band staple "Gloria" and fans of '60's music should also be well aware of their classic "Here Comes The Night". In addition, "Baby, Please Don't Go" and "Mystic Eyes" have earned the group a status well beyond that of simply being Van Morrison's first combo.
But the extra time ALSO gave me a chance to get caught up on a few things ... and put the finishing touches on our long-awaited / much-delayed TOP 20 ALL-TIME FAVORITE GARAGE BANDS Series ... which now officially kicks off tomorrow!!!
You'll definitely want to come back for this one ... as Forgotten Hits kicks off its 14th Year with yet another landmark series.
Meanwhile, here are a few more last minute loose ends! Enjoy!
re: TODAY'S FORGOTTEN HIT:
Hey Kent,
The Seekers' song,"World of Our Own" was good to hear. And it brought to mind another song that is NEVER heard on the "oldies" stations (excepting 1480 / 850, Grand Rapids / Muskegon). That would be one by the New Seekers, featuring Eve Graham: "Look What They've Done to My Song". Maybe WGVU checks out your website. The day after you featured "Hang on to Your Life", they played it.
Dube
That's really the whole point ... we've heard from numerous jocks over the years who have been inspired to play something because they saw it mentioned or heard it featured in Forgotten Hits ... "Oh yeah, I forgot all about THAT one!" And that's our goal. Sometimes it's just nice to hear something DIFFERENT ... that doesn't mean that it needs to be added to the permanent, heavy-rotation play list ... just something where the listeners perk up their ears for a moment and say "Man, I haven't heard THAT song in ages!!!" That's really what a "forgotten hit" is! We featured The New Seekers' version of "Look What They've Done To My Song, Ma" a while back ... but I'm up for spinning it again. Yesterday I heard "A Brand New Key" by Melanie (who wrote that New Seekers hit) and, quirky as they both are, it's really fun to hear them again every once in a while. (I also heard "Swearin' To God" by Frankie Valli yesterday ... further proof that, according to radio anyway, The Four Seasons were simply one of those '70's Disco Groups. According to this new "Classic Hits" / "Greatest Hits Of All-Time" format, The Four Seasons never had a hit before "Who Loves You" in 1975!!! That'd be like if you only ever heard "Miss You" by The Stones ... or, heaven forbid, "Here Comes The Night" by The Beach Boys!!! (Seriously ... what were they thinking?!?!?) Or, perhaps more appropriately, what is RADIO thinking??? (kk)
Kent --
I don't know how long it's been since The Riddles were mentioned in FH, but they used to play at the Teen Club dances at Immaculate Conception Church in Chicago circa 1967, and for a garage band were remarkably good. (They also played at The Hut in Des Plaines but I wasn't allowed to go there at 15.) Their lead singer Lee Adams wore bright red pants, and that seemed exotic at the time. Kiss was still a few years in our future, heh.
Their cover of "Sweets for My Sweet" remains my all-time favorite rendition of a really good song.
Some info and photos here: http://www.garagehangover.com/?q=riddles -- Jeff Duntemann
Old Chicago boy, now in Colorado Springs
If I remember correctly, you first discovered Forgotten Hits when we mentioned The Riddles' version of "Sweets For My Sweet", a Top 20 local hit here in Chicago in 1967, way back when. While we can't really classify this one as a Forgotten Hit (it never charted nationally), we CAN feature it again today for old time's sake. A great rendition, to be sure ... very much in the same vein as The Cryan' Shames' version of "Sugar And Spice", another big Searchers hit. (kk)
re: ON THE CHARTS:
About the "Top100 Hits of 1972" Countdown that you mentioned... did it also include anything by the Detroit Emeralds, Uriah Heep and Bobby Womack?Or even the Guess Who?
I pretty much figured on Neil Young, The Carpenters, America, The Stylistics, Helen Reddy, Gilbert O' Sullivan, Roberta Flack, Harry Nilsson, Elton John.
But I'm just curious as to just how thorough this particular survey was.
Tal Hartsfeld
I couldn't tell ya for sure ... because it's not my list ... it was put together by one of the jocks on the list who does an internet show ... but you can tune in today to catch the rest of it. As far as any of those artists on your listmaking The Top 100, I kinda doubt it ... the year-end charts typically only recap the year's very biggest hits. But I've sent your inquiry on to Rich Appel, who is hosting this countdown to see if he can offer any additional feedback.
kk
Since the Top 100 of 1972 was based on weekly radio station surveys across all major and not-so-major markets, the hits are gonna rise to the top. Songs that were regional hits are less likely to show up in a 100-position ranking. Of course, some of those artists did show up in the second or third 100 of the year.
Rich Appel
Honestly, I wouldn't have expected ANY of those artists that Tal mentioned to make a year-end Top 100 ranking. However, in the past we have featured hits like "Easy Livin'" by Uriah Heep and "Baby Let Me Take You" by The Detroit Emeralds because they both absolutely fall into our "Forgotten Hits" category ... legitimate hit songs that got played on the radio ALL of the time back then ... but seem to have disappeared forever ever since.
In fact, these are both GREAT suggestions ... so we're featuring them today. (But tune into Rich's countdown anyway, OK?!?!?) lol Thanks! (kk)
"Easy Livin'" by Uriah Heep reached #32 in 1972 ... and "Baby Let Me Take You" by The Detroit Emeralds is one of my personal, all-time favorites ... so I play this one all the time here at home. It was a #17 Hit that same year! (kk)
As I was preparing the Tommy James and the Shondells segment for our Top 20 All-Time Favorite Garage Bands series, I came across this chart analysis by Tommy from hisbook "Me, The Mob and The Music" and thought I'd run it by the group for feedback. I also sent a copy to Joel Whitburn and Randy Price, our resident chart gurus for their opinions.
The three big trade papers were Record World, Cash Box and Billboard. Cash Box had a slant toward retail ... it focused on the money generated from records. Record World had a slant toward radio airplay. Billboard claimed to be in the middle. The problem with that was that when you put out a record, things back then happened fast.
Every six weeks you needed a new record ... that's how quickly the turnover was if you wanted to stay constantly on the charts. If you put our a record and it generated some excitement, it immediately went on the radio. That would be reflected in Record World. But it would take two or three weeks after you heard a song on the radio before the sales figures would start to hit and the stores would report it. That was when your record would start charting in Cash Box. So there was a lag time between those two trade papers. Billboard claimed to chart records in between radio play and sales. But you would always be two to three weeks further ahead in radio airplay than you were in sales. You might start out in the Top 20 in airplay. Then, if the record was a hit, it would usually climb very fast, which meant you might be number one in Record World, but only number twenty in Cash Box. Billboard took the average ot the two and listed you as number ten in their paper. That sounded okay, and you might eventually go to number one in Cash Box and Record World ... but you would have to stay that way for three weeks to get a number one in Billboard.
There was always a controversy about Billboard's Top Five lists, because the whole industry was screaming at them over the discrepancies. And now, because the other trade paper collapsed over the years, Billboard, by attrition, became the keeper of the flame. When young researchers and historians go back to check the archives for a record's history, they inevitably get a skewed sense of how popular it really was
-- Tommy James
Interesting perspective ... and one of the reasons Forgotten Hits always shows the HIGHEST charted position of any record as reported by all three publications. And now that Joel Whitburn has officially published a history of both the Billboard and the Record World Pop Singles Charts (with a Cash Box book on the way in the not-too-distant future), hopefully there will be a better reflection of just how popular a given record was. (We've seen this for years with regional hits, too ... a record could be HUGE here in Chicago ... and then, just about the time that record is working its way down the chart, it takes off in a big way in another city. You find out that the record was a Top Five Smash in a dozen different cities ... but never all at the same time ... so the Billboard book ends up listing it at #70 overall because that was the best result of any given week's national input. SO many great songs were missed and ignored as a result of this ... which is why we also always try to factor in the results of our local charts.
I was curious what Joel and Randy might say about Tommy's comments, regarding the accuracies (and discrepancies) between the charts as recorded by three major national trade publications ...
Here's my take on the comments from the Tommy James book concerning the national music trades:
First of all, it should be kept in mind that the methodologies employed by the three magazines' chart departments changed over the years, so what might have been true during a particular time period wasn't necessarily the case before or after that period. Looking specifically at the period from the mid-'60s through 1970, when Tommy James had his string of hits with the Shondells, chart statistics would seem to contradict the assertions made in his book.
Using the Shondells' own singles as examples, almost all of them debuted on the three trade charts no more than a week apart. The biggest discrepancies came in 1968 when "Somebody Cares" debuted first in Cash Box, then a week later in Record World, then the week after that in Billboard. The group's next single, "Do Something To Me," debuted first in Record World, then a week later in Billboard, then the week after that in Cash Box. The next four singles by the group ("Crimson And Clover," "Sweet Cherry Wine," "Crystal Blue Persuasion" and "Ball Of Fire") all debuted the same week on all three charts. That streak was broken by "She," which debuted a week earlier in Record World than in the other two. So, there was no consistency in which chart was ahead of or behind the other two in those cases.
Also, many of the Tommy James & The Shondells singles peaked higher in both Cash Box and Record World than they did in Billboard. (This was also true for some other rock 'n' roll groups, particularly Paul Revere & The Raiders). So, if Record World's charts were indeed slanted toward radio airplay, it didn't prevent those charts from being more similar to Cash Box's (which were indeed based on retail sales at that time) than to Billboard's.
As for the assertion that an upcoming hit that reached #1 in Record World might have been at a substantially lower position in Cash Box or Billboard, that is not supported by chart statistics either. During the same period cited above, in an overwhelming majority of weeks, a record that was #1 on one magazine's chart was in the top 5 on the other two, usually in the top 3. In every one of the rare instances when a record was below the top 10 on one chart while at #1 on one or both of the others, it was a case of one magazine dropping the record more quickly than the other two; there were no instances of a record reaching #1 for the first time on one chart while not yet in the top 10 on the other two.
All of this only goes to underscore the fact that at that time compiling lists of the most popular records was more an art than a science. Each magazine's chart department had its own methodology for interpreting (and possibly manipulating) the data it collected from stores, one-stops and / or radio stations. (And that's not even taking into account the occasional mechanical or mathematical mistakes that might have been made when compiling, laying out and printing the charts each week with a tight deadline.) So any but the most general blanket statements about how the charts compared to one another could likely be refuted by specific examples to the contrary.
– Randy
Hi Kent,
I have read Tommy James' book and in many ways it’s similar to Jimmie Rodgers’ autobiography. Perhaps, that’s because they were both on Morris Levy’s label, Roulette.
Both are interesting looks inside the music industry that, indeed, expose some ‘seedy’ dealings with most of the young artists that broke through on independent labels in the early decades of the rock ‘n roll revolution.
Tommy’s analysis of the three major trades has some merit, but is flawed. There are just too many examples of chart debut dates and peak positions for various songs and artists from the three trades to blow-up his whole reasoning. Not only that, but each trade used a different formula to compile their charts, and they used different methods in ranking records. For instance, Cash Box and Record World, for a long time, combined all versions of a song into one chart position, resulting in higher peak positions for those songs and also the songs listed below them.
Back in 1970 I visited Billboard’s chart department in New York City and also in Los Angeles. Also, at that time I visited George Albert in his Cash Box office in New York. Billboard’s offices were a bee-hive of activity with one huge department devoted solely to approximately 40 staff members doing phone work to get the very latest data inputted into next week’s chart. Cash Box, on the other hand, had a very small staff and was relatively quiet. I never visited the Record World offices ... however, I have been in touch with several of their past editors, Greg Geller and Mike Sigman, and they’ve indicated to me that they plan on writing a book about that history.
To be honest, I respect all three trades and I think they all offer a wonderful reflection on America’s most popular songs and artists.
Joel Whitburn
Because of the different methodology used by the three different major music trades to publish their charts at the time, my feeling has always been that the COMBINED ranking, utilizing ALL of those resources available, would constitute the most accurate chart possible for this era. It was with this thought in mind that The Super Charts were born.
Knowing that Randy Price had already been compiling chart data from all three publications (but also knowing that none of the three would allow their statistics to be shared side-by-side with one another), we decided instead to focus on the research data collected during this era to see if we could compile what would, in effect, be the most comprehensive chart listing possible. (It's just too easy, with 20/20 hindsight, to "re-rank" some of these songs that have stood the test of time ... that's why it was important to us to collect this data as it was originally collected AT THAT TIME, thus eliminating all bias, prejudice and opinion. As such, The Super Charts are based exclusively on this mathematical data collected from that time with absolutely NO other factors weighing in with any impact.) We hope to someday be able to publish the results of all this research into what we believe will be the most accurate chart listing of all time.
This project began several years ago and since then, Joel Whitburn has published "recaps" of the pop singles charts for both Billboard and Music Vendor / Record World in the most complete volumes ever assembled by Record Research. (A Cash Box book is also in the works ... and we're hoping for a release sometime next year!) These are AMAZING and invaluable pieces of work and belong in the collection of ANYONE who has ever studied or researched the charts. Likewise, as part of our research, we considered collecting the local charts from six major markets (Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City and a few other key points across the country) to see what these charts reflected on the top Top 40 Radio Stations in the country. These regional statistics would have given added weight to Randy's research. However, we could never find a complete enough library to do so ... or one that would span the rock era from 1955 - 1985, which was our original target program. (Too many stations closed up shop or changed formats during this time period, thus leaving the charts from any given area with too many "holes" which, again, might lead to speculation rather than actual facts and figures.) As such, this part of the project was abandoned.
Over the years we have run sample charts on The Forgotten Hits Website ... and we will continue to do so from time to time. In the meantime, we're hoping to complete the research and then, year-by-year, begin to release The Super Charts for public consumption. (Who knows ... we just may rewrite chart history in the process!)
Stay tuned to Forgotten Hits for more on this as it develops. Meanwhile, VERY SPECIAL THANKS to Joel Whitburn and Randy Price for sharing their insight with our readers ... and for all of the invaluable research they have assembled over the years for our enjoyment and consumption! (kk)
(click chart to enlarge)
TOMORROW IN FORGOTTEN HITS ...
We're taking you out to the garage ...
And we're gonna KEEP you out there for the next couple of weeks!
That's because we're FINALLY running the results of our Top 20 All-Time Favorite Garage Bands Survey!!!
Lots of surprises (including a special list of "Runners Up" ... along with commentary from some of the winning artists themselves!)
You are NOT going to want to miss this series ...
We'll send out periodic reminders ... and any non-Garage Band-related news will go out in the form of emails so as not to upset the continuity of this long-awaited series. (Not signed up for email reminders?!?!? Then now would be the time to do so!!!)
We OFFICIALLY kick of Year 14 of Forgotten Hits TOMORROW, November 26th!!! Hoping that you'll join us for this very special series! (kk)
